Ufh 50 zones !!?

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on31ll

Anybody know of a controller able to control 5 manifolds with 10 zones on each manifold


back story is its installed in a church 5 manifolds on the wall all fed off a domestic boiler. All manifolds fed in 22mm. The church left the heating on for 3 days solid and it moved up one degree !!!!!
 
That's alarm bells
Did you install it?
Does it have a low loss header?
How many kW is the boiler?

From the sound of it you want to pair the loops into large zones!!!
 
on31ll said:
back story is its installed in a church 5 manifolds on the wall all fed off a domestic boiler. All manifolds fed in 22mm. The church left the heating on for 3 days solid and it moved up one degree !!!!!
Click to expand...

I would be asking for the PI insurance details for the M&E consultant who designed it.
 
Sounds horrendously undersized...
Last church we done was fed off to 80kw boilers.
 
Well i want to link the zones out. No i didnt design or build that. Fed off a domestic 70kw boiler when. I go there ill take pictures its up there with bad installs.

No low loss header. Flow amd return straight into 5 manifolds
 
First things first that will never heat up....

Till the mixers reach temp their pumps will be pulling through the boiler!!!
5x a ups2......

That's going to exceed the max flow rate of the boiler massively and strip the heat too quickly
 
Sorry just a domestic 42kw. I was reading the post of the two 70kws.


Anyone suggest best ways to plumb this in. Im thinking two boilers. Low loss header. Need to sort pumping out though.
 
Get a firm in to do a independent heat calc and have them guarantee that.
Then compare to the underfloor spec and see if it's man enough, if not you'll need an auxiliary heat source for the warm up imho like the fanned myson rads.

your manifolds all want their flow and returns going to a manifold straight off the llh.

They can pull from there then and not the boiler, will give it half a chance to heat up!
 
I think that domestically the Honeywell evohome with 5 manifold kits could handle 50 zones although I'm assuming you have one or two stats per manifold ? . However that's gonna be pricy :)
 
Ill have to have a look at it. Work out whats needed. The whole jobs not going to be cheap anyway. Its a real mess
 
In theory could i fit a zone valve to the flow on each of the 5 manifold and have each manifold as a zone. On a thermostat ?

Seems that would be alot easier. Really need to map out each one of these 50 zones
 
...... Oh my...... That's awful....

You need to do the lot man.
Adding controls to the manifolds won't make any difference until the plant is sorted.

And that boiler will be ruined in no time with that flow firing though it.

Needs hydraulic separation desperately
 
What im thinking is two boilers. Low loss header. Possibly linking out the zones to bring down the amount of zones abit.

But need to sort out controls for them too.

Maybe run 3 john guest set ups or somthing. Thats why i was thinking of using zone valves. On room stats.
 
At the risk of sounding rude, (not my intention at all, honestly!) this job has already been cocked up by someone who didn't have the requisite skills and experience to do it right.

I'm not sure that a bit of consultation on UKPF, however well intentioned, is going to correct that problem. With the greatest respect, the client deserves someone with a deeper level of experience of this type of install.

Sometimes, the greatest wisdom is having the self knowledge to say "I don't know".
 
Ray speaks the truth, got to say I like to walk away from anything more complicated than 4 beds and a lounge/diner. But I have seen a lot of awful installs by some who have a little knowledge, theres nothing worse than coming across an ufh system where the floors are to hot to walk on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Ive fitted on alot bigger scale than this but i never had to spec a system to control 50 zones. My original question was about that. I asked advice to compare to what i have already thought.

If i come across like im asking people to do the work for me then its come across wrong. I do alot of churchs and alot have sabinana convectors combined with ufh but the zones are no where 50. Since im not ripping the floor up ive gotta work with whats there.
 
on31ll said:
Ive fitted on alot bigger scale than this but i never had to spec a system to control 50 zones. My original question was about that. I asked advice to compare to what i have already thought.

If i come across like im asking people to do the work for me then its come across wrong. I do alot of churchs and alot have sabinana convectors combined with ufh but the zones are no where 50. Since im not ripping the floor up ive gotta work with whats there.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. As I said, it was intended in a positive spirit. :)
 
If it's a church then you'll probably not need multi zone control as it will be a couple of huge spaces that require miles of pipe.

It's quite likely that the floor heating won't provide a sufficient amount of heat to match the losses in the winter anyway. Most underfloor can't achieve the type of outputs an old type church would require.

I would be preparing to offer a compromise as opposed to a solution before you accept any works on this one, the fundamentals could be all wrong.
 
When you say the manifolds are fed off 22mm mains, are each manifolds mains taken back to the boiler location or are they al fed off the one set of 22mm mains?

Can you not provide a simple drawing of the installation?
 
Last edited:
I havent been back to be able to take pics. Got a rep coming out as he said he has seen this exact install before and there was actuators etc.

There are 5 manifold and theses are mounted in what look like radiator covers in the main church. 2 on the left wall and 3 on the right wall. Directly opposite.

The 22mm leaves the boiler travels 10meters to the first manifold then into the second. Then goes right around the room to connect into the 3rd then 4th then 5th.
 
22mm cannot even deliver that level of heat. M u p p e t s.

Going to need a re pipe.

I would be running 2" CT round with each manifold off as a VT with a WC driver on the VT.
 
Barr humbug be a nice circular hedder with plenty of thermal mass to stop boiler cycling. All boiler is doing is banging that 2" round. Flow and returns would need to be slightly apart tho......
 
The rep is meeting me there at some point. See what he says. We have other stuff to sort anyway. But either way the zones are all in concrete and thats the only bit staying.
 
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