new central heating installation advice please

[MrMarky83]

Im looking for advice on decent boilers for a 2 bed flat that are reliable, but also advice on hanging 3 radiators - all on plasterboard walls.

I currently have no central heating in my flat and I am putting in 3 rads, all singles as i dont think doubles would hold on my plasterboard walls.
I have been given advice that theres roughly 50mm gap between the plasterboard and the external brickwork so if i get screws long enough it should be ok... but im not sure about this...

Im not keen on the idea of ripping the wall down to support behind it, and ive not been in the game long enough to have experience with hangning rads on plasterboard - so any suggestions would be great!

thanks, Mark

 

[diamondgas]

Hi Mark,

There are many fixes designed for plasterboard these days, check out your local DIY there are guy's there that'll show you the expanding fixings sutable for your needs. regards 'best' boiler, you'll find that's up for contention. Vaillant's tend to get the bigger of the thumbs up but you get what you pay for usually!

Personally get yourself the highest Kw output boiler that suits your cold water mains supply. Do some research and don't be afraid to ask the installer questions before you buy!

I'm sure others here could add to this advice shouldthey agree with me

 

[Big Graham]

Can I ask why you suggested to put in the biggest boiler kW output ?

 

[diamondgas]

Can I ask why you suggested to put in the biggest boiler kW output ?

Main reason is for guaranteed hotwater in the colder months Big Graham. A 24kW will heat a street of radiators, but struggles to supply warm water in the winter months. My experience and countless explaining to customers about the changes in cold water temp; 35 degC rise blah! blah! There are only a few occasions (Landlords) LOL.... where I've fitted anything less than 28kW.

 

[Big Graham]

Lol i`m a landlord.Just a thought though, our chap is planning to put in 3 rads which I will assume will equate to a maximum of around 7.5kW at a flow temp of around 60C.Would it not be better putting in a 24kW considering the size of the flat and also if he wants to turn his valves down to 1 then the modulation (minimum output) in a 24kW boiler is less than a 28kW.DHW in a 2 bed flat should not be an issue unless he has 5 bathrooms.Just thinking about consumption, thats all !.

 

[MrMarky83]

ive heard that vaillant boilers are up there with the best, my main issue though is with the rads ion the plasterboard as ive never hung them on before and im a bit worried, ive decided all of them will have to be single rads but thats about as far as ive got at the moment!

thanks for all the advice though...

 

[diamondgas]

LoL Big Graham ... Well if you want to learn something here goes ....... Modern boilers will modulate to the central heating demands and a 24kW will heat a 2 rad flat modern 5 bed 15 rad home no problem. Main issue is always the hotwater and tenants complaining about water not hot enough in the colder months! It's easy money for me when landlords call me out to explain the difference in cold water temps winter to summer. If you want less grief from your tenants put something that'll guarantee they won't be complaining in the winter! My opinion ...

 

[diamondgas]

ive heard that vaillant boilers are up there with the best, my main issue though is with the rads ion the plasterboard as ive never hung them on before and im a bit worried, ive decided all of them will have to be single rads but thats about as far as ive got at the moment!

thanks for all the advice though...

Your welcome... In my day we called the fixes 'spring toggles'! There are also ficings that splay out like a star and give a real secure fix!

 

[garyplumb]

Use toggle bolts for the rads, they are best for fixing to plasterboard.

 

[stevetheplumber]

spring toggles to fit the rads on board always use the dril size recomended and dont force the drill through as blowing the inside of the board weakens the fix i find a flat wood bit the best
if possible try and get one end on a stud use a studfinder or sometimes you can tap the wall to find it if the job is undecorated a small 2mm dril can be used just fill the holes afterwardsl

 

[diamondgas]

Lol i`m a landlord.Just a thought though, our chap is planning to put in 3 rads which I will assume will equate to a maximum of around 7.5kW at a flow temp of around 60C.Would it not be better putting in a 24kW considering the size of the flat and also if he wants to turn his valves down to 1 then the modulation (minimum output) in a kW boiler is less than a kW.DHW in a 2 bed flat should not be an issue unless he has 5 bathrooms.Just thinking about consumption, thats all !.

I noticed from you're other quotes on this site that you seem a a bit of a 'geek' (No offence meant) regards heat loss and eficiencies... So I can get technical maybe? Check out the manufacturers paperwork will always mention a 35 degC rise on water supply. Cold water in this country, well in Newcastle anyways, varies from as low as 5 degC to 15+ degC. Now generally a shower is set to comfort at 38 degC, however 'Hot' water to our hand touch is around 45 to 47 degC. therefore a boiler guaranteeing 35 DegC rise potentially offers 40 - 50 degC Maximum water temp at their maximum flow rate! In the colder months on maximum flow rate the temp of hot water with Combi's may just reach above 'comfortable', and will NOT feel 'hot' ... guaranteed ... unless you over compenssate!
The lower the heat input the less chance of supplying year round guaranteed hot water, obviously the more heat you have there for your hot water the more chance of hot water! Combi boilers ain't the best for hot water! I've never looked into their efficiency in hot water mode but I'd question whether they're that good!

 

[Big Graham]

Nice 1 Diamondgas, however a modern 24kW boiler is cheaper than a modern 28kW boiler, if we compare brand with brand.Correct me if I`m wrong but I believe a maximum output on a 24kW for DHW is in the region of 18kW ?.By my estimation thats the equivelant of 2 thermostatic showers running at full pelt.Even if the washing machine is on at same time (an old washing machine with hot and cold feed) there should still be no issue with DHW.I understand summer cold water is around 20C before it enters the boiler and winter cold water is between 5 C and 10 C.A landlords philosophy !!!!!!! lol

 

[diamondgas]

Your right regards cost Big Graham a 24kW will run about £100 maybe less to buy than the 28kW. In landlord terms that'll be 1/10th to 1/4 of a months rent!

Regards water supply you can't compare like for like electric showers and combi boilers, the efficiency of heat transfer is different for one and I'd surmise the flow rates on Electric showers are governed to give what they're designed to supply; water no greater than about 42 DegC I'd imagine. I'll reemphasise boiler manufacturers will only stipulate a 35 DegC rise at a certain flow rate and are fitted with flow restrictors to limit the water flowing through them. As I said before Big Graham it's easy money for me .. 10 minutes work... one flow meter and a thermometer --- gizzya money!!!! lol. All because of a few quid saving. I must easily make a couple of grand a season visiting lower output boilers across the winter! Keep on putting in those 24kW boilers pleeeeease!!! *VBS*