New Boiler installation

[sp25]

Dear all,
My boiler has given up few months ago and urgently in need of a new boiler. It'a very big decision as its a huge amount and i want to be able to install a reliable one. Having suffered with no heating/hot water i am very cautious esp as i have a little baby.

I have narrowed it down to Baxi platinum HE28 A. It was a tough choice between Baxi, Vaillant Ecotech Pro & Vaillant Ecotech Plus.

I am not sure which is the best as there seems to be lots of brands and also mixed opinions. However, I was hoping you could share your expert opinions please.

Thanks in advance.

 

[sp25]

Dear experts,
another problem has just arose..

as Baxi platinum HEA is a bigger model than the Glowworm 80e (dimensions unknown-not obvious from manual or anywhere online!) and also as Baxi requires 22mm pipes unlike Glowworm 80e(couldn't find any info related to this), the installer has mentioned that the installation will affect the kitchen units and they cannot guarantee it'll be saved due to the age of the units.

I wonder if you know of any Baxi models that can fit in the same dimensions pipe as Glowworm 80e? I could ask the installer what our current pipe dimensions are but cannot ring him till Monday as I don't find it fair to disturb him on the weekend when he's not at work..

My preference would be to stick to Baxi model as their CS seems good. However, if we cannot then we have to go with a Vaillant (2nd option) or Glow-worm (3rd) or consider a different brand from your expert opinions..

Thanks for mentioning about Ideal Vogue..it seems 10 year guarantee too...Is there any other reliable ones with a longer guarantee that you could recommend if there is no workable solution to the above.

thanks for your time

 

[sp25]

Vogue is 7:1

icos is 4:1 at best.

you see some (greenstar junior for example) seem to basically de rate a 28kw to make a 24, so not even 4:1.

I think vokera do a 10:1 but, well, it's a vokera.

Dear all,
Can you pls clarify what this modulation thingy is and what does the best mean in terms of modulation numbers.

Which ratio is better?

Pls explain in lay man terms as im not an expert...just a common man

thanks,

 

[sp25]

Ideal Vogue every time.

Similar to a Vaillant in design but better value. More economical then any of the above. 10 year warranty and it looks pretty.

Bigger isn't always better, especially for combi's. The difference between a 28kw and a 24kw as far as hot water is concerned is about 2 mins longer to run a full (100 litre) bath, assuming you add no cold. The difference is the bigger the boiler the less chance you have of reducing short cycling on heating.

Hot water = approx 30% of your fuel bill
Heating = approx 70%

So the savings are in the heating and the way the system is designed, not how fast you can run a hot tap.

For a few extra quid you could add weather compensation and further increase the efficiency.

thanks Nostrum, just a quick clarification regarding your suggestion.
could u pls clarify whether bigger is better if i go for Baxi platinum 28. GSR said that 24 should be sufficient for a flat size (2BR+1bath+2sinks+6radiators (double)). We don't generally use the bath, 99.9% only shower (powered by the boiler). I don't mind waiting for the hot water flow to start a few seconds later and generally the first minute or so its cold water anyway..,and the water is not metered ;-)..
Please clarify whether bigger is better in the above scenario? and if not why not pls?

im happy to invest in 33 if required (if its better efficiency in terms of heating). Thanks for the % proportion..wasn't sure how much of gas for each generally.

thanks,

 

[Ermintrude]

Ideal logic plus. Perfect size gas inlet 15mm. ( needs to be able to supply correct rate of gas) so if it's longer than 2m in 15mm u may have problems!!!!

 

[dmheat]

It's likely that whatever boiler you choose the gas pipe will need upgraded, 99% of old combis (yours being 14years old) will be on significantly undersized gas supplies.

Don't worry too much about modulation ratios,they're mainly a sales pitch. Basically a boiler with a lower ratio won't modulate as low, so as the temp rises the boiler stat will shut it off and continue to pump round. A boiler that modulates low will continue to heat at a low gas rate in order to maintain a smooth flow temp. One goes off...other burns at a lower rate for longer. Unless you are talking about large properties here the real world effect is firstly minimal, and secondly will not translate into any kind of saving...they are arguments for parts longevity etc too...personally I think when it comes to domestic boilers it's a sale ploy...

Size your combi for desired hot water flow rate....if you're getting 15lpm+ and decent pressure but fit a 24kw boiler, when you open a tap fully you will not get a satisfactory temp rise...2mins extra to run a bath is a poor example...good pressure shower with enough hot water VS good pressure shower with luke warm water is a better example.

Your installer needs to measure dynamic water pressure,standing pressure and flow rate to give you a good idea of what boiler size you need/would benefit from. Otherwise you might have to throttle down your decent flow rate, to a crap flow rate, just to get the water hot enough.

Fit a logic plus

 

[sp25]

Ideal logic plus. Perfect size gas inlet 15mm. ( needs to be able to supply correct rate of gas) so if it's longer than 2m in 15mm u may have problems!!!!

Thanks Ermintrude, I estimate that the gas meter to the boiler distance is approx about 7-8 metres. Also, as others said, probably gas pipes need upgrading upon a new boiler installation!

Love the ideal warranty and recommendations..

 

[sp25]

thanks dmheat! yes, probably the pipes need replacing upon new installation.

GSR didn't do the formalities as testing water pressure etc., he seems experienced and they are a reliable local company from what i know.

Starting to get IDEAL into my head now! Although the below has brought me back to square one of my search for a reliable boiler!

And may be wasted a £1 on which trial on boiler reviews and more confused than ever before. The topmost recommended brands are Worcester. Statistically they seem to be the highest ranking with Worcester brand ONLY in their best buys table.

Quoted from Which boiler review as below.
"Average customer score=80% based on responses from 4354 condensing gas boiler owners who have bought a boiler since April 2006.
Responses for each brand are: Alpha(87), Baxi (267), BG(178), GW(327), Ideal(195), Johnson&Starley(31), Main (45), Potterton (172), Rehema Avanta (32), Vaillant (847), Viessman(130), Vokera(55), Worcester(1844)"

If 1844 Worcester have consistently ranked their boiler to be good that must be something?! Or perhaps this is very biased as the number of responses are significantly larger for this brand. Also, avg score for this brand is 89% that includes whether they would recommend this boiler to others.

In addition, i am surprised that none here has recommended Worcester. Any reasons? Kindly share pls.

i dont want to annoy my GSR by saying i want another quote for Worcester as he may think i am fooling around. However, i genuinely want to see what the price difference would be. Not impressed with their 5 year guarantee though....if its the best of the best as recommended by Which, why are they not giving a longer guarantee?

 

[dmheat]

That's a pathetically inaccurate survey and NO indication of boiler quality or reliability lol

 

[sp25]

That's a pathetically inaccurate survey and NO indication of boiler quality or reliability lol

lol, that's true

as it's based on boiler owner's review and if 1000+ have installed it and liked it, wouldn't it be a factor that you take into account?

wish there was a verified purchase/review for boilers

 

[Ermintrude]

It's because Worcester actively chances feedback and there though nah!

 

[squidlips]

we have an ideal logic combi in our fishing club house,it runs the hot water for a flat and the bar area,it also heats the flat and bar.
never missed a beat in the 3yrs it has been fitted and the bar is open an average 70 hrs a week

 

[sp25]

It's because Worcester actively chances feedback and there though nah!

Thanks, yes it seems quite obvious given the big difference in uptake of the survey!

Wondered what the GSR's on this forum think about Worcester brand from your personal experiences of installing/follow on compliants...this may probably a less biased opinion than a single brand promoted survey.

Worcester - good/bad - personal/professional experiences?

 

[dmheat]

Reputation built on tv adverts, BG installing them, and they treat their platinum and diamond installers (companies that install X amount per year) very well, days out, power tools, etc etc

In the real world, plastic components and rubbish to work on. Not designed for maintenance....at all.

Their after sales is excellent however but warrantys aren't that long compared to others.

If you need a cupboard fit combi your choices are limited, my personal and professional recommendation would be an ideal logic+ or a baxi avanta but others may or may not agree. It's like asking a mechanic for a car recommendation, you'll rarely hear the same car twice lol

 

[jtsplumbing]

Ok lets upset the apple cart ! she likes Baxi, but concerned over boiler size, Think about the New Baxi Blue range more compact in size, not yet fitted one but looks good boiler with some very good extra fetcher's

 

[dmheat]

I'd only fit the ecoblue advance, the ecoblue+ is the compact version with composite hydroblocks (as you might be able to tell,they're a pet hate of mine lol)

 

[Ermintrude]

No no no no don't. Only Baxi you should ever consider is the HE duotec platinum range the rest are utter shister. Baxi know this and that's why even though they have launched 7 new boilers, rebranded remeha main they still selling HE boiler. When it's withdrawn we will not be fitting Baxi. We fit literally 100's a year.

 

[julesverne]

Erms will you be fitting the logic when it goes all plastic it seems their all manufacturers are going this way

 

[Ermintrude]

Yep logics again. They are same as Baxi HE in my mind. Plus side is the washing of hex and installer mode. Downside pressure gauge / location tick. Flue quality : cost . And the fact after installing a zillion still forget vertical flue adaptor when it's a vertical then horiz flue termination

 

[LPC]

Christ it's only a boiler. All the top brands are pretty good and installation matters more anyway.

Pick one, get it installed properly by a man that can speak properly; do something more interesting.

 

[sp25]

Yep logics again. They are same as Baxi HE in my mind. Plus side is the washing of hex and installer mode. Downside pressure gauge / location tick. Flue quality : cost . And the fact after installing a zillion still forget vertical flue adaptor when it's a vertical then horiz flue termination

Thanks all!
Sticking to Baxi platinum..if it cannot be fit without disturbing kitchen units too much, then it'll be another Baxi-poss Duo tech! If not, will consider Ideal as it offers same warranty and seems to have received some good comments here..

thanks for your input much appreciated..

 

[basildog]

Christ it's only a boiler. All the top brands are pretty good and installation matters more anyway.

Pick one, get it installed properly by a man that can speak properly; do something more interesting.

That is the problem with a lot of trades yes to them it is simple and not worth the hassle when you have a customer who wants to know the ins and outs of everything, but to him at that point it is the most important decission he has to make at that time and for many a substantial capital investment that they do not want to get wrong ?
When I was running the bilding firm I started to see a 100k job as small and a pain in the backside I think somewhere along the line we tend to forget that people are all different some needing more hand holding than others !

 

[sp25]

Christ it's only a boiler. All the top brands are pretty good and installation matters more anyway.

Pick one, get it installed properly by a man that can speak properly; do something more interesting.

thanks for your opinion LPC! It's NOT JUST a boiler for me! My boiler broke completely in September and haven't had a drop of hot water/heating for 3 months now! Having an infant baby it's not an ideal situation but we had to wait until now to get a new one installed.

Therefore, investing some time into seeking expert opinions, researching boiler brand reputation from consumers themselves is key to my decision making process.

Like you say, all top brands does seem pretty good and installation counts. I am looking for that one extra element (expert opinion from people who install them on a daily basis) which will confirm/sway my short-list/selection like the forum has now done. This will mean that atleast i can have some peace of mind knowing that i have done my best given the knowledge.

Also, what makes you think this is not interesting for me especially when I love buying an item for my home/family that keeps us warm and cosy... ;-)

 

[sp25]

That is the problem with a lot of trades yes to them it is simple and not worth the hassle when you have a customer who wants to know the ins and outs of everything, but to him at that point it is the most important decission he has to make at that time and for many a substantial capital investment that they do not want to get wrong ?
When I was running the bilding firm I started to see a 100k job as small and a pain in the backside I think somewhere along the line we tend to forget that people are all different some needing more hand holding than others !

Thanks Basildog, you nailed it! Yes, it's not a small decision for me given my current situation with no heating/hot water for over 3 months...and boilers are NOT cheap unless you are a GSR and can install it yourself as the relative cost of the boiler is cheaper than the installation itself!

 

[basildog]

To be honest I started as a complete novice to everything but saw how badly people were being treated by tradesmen and their attitudes at the time as a 19 year old .
Asked when I was stuck never been afraid to ask although you soon learn half the so called experts are numpties wearing blinkers !
Started getting asked to do building work and thought why the hell not ,used the right guys that were hungry and keen ,19 and driving a brand new Hilux and owning a new Mini excavator , out at 4.30 am digging graves before starting normal work ! all on the never never , Got a call one day to be at a customers house at 8.0clock in the morning for a bunch of stuck up landscape designers !
Anyway a £100 job turned into millions of pounds worth of work as the client loved my attitude and ability to think out side the box and yes plenty of sucking up too !

 

[LPC]

I am a bad man.

What i'm trying to say is I think possibly you're over-thinking this. This earlier post was what gave me that impression the most:

I spoke to both Vaillant and Baxi and found it took me 45 minutes to get to Vaillant/Glowworm and they didn't seem keen to answer my queries. Baxi on the other hand took less than 10 minutes and i called them about four times each time when i had a new query and they were amazingly helpful. This was one of the reasons in addition to the 10yr guarantee i felt swayed towards Baxi rather than Vaillant.
,

You rang Baxi 4 times?

I get it. You want the best boiler for your money. If I hadn't have had hot water/heating for 3 months and a baby, i'd have gotten 3 quotes as quickly as possible from word of mouth recommendations and taken recommendations from friends /family and respective installers, made a decision quickly and gotten heating & hot water in the property as fast as possible. It's not hard. Not ring Baxi 4 times etc with queries you could settle much more quickly by getting a GSR around to the house.

If this is the amount of research and time you're spending just on the boiler, you should be spending 5 times that researching your installer.

Lets hope you get it in by next xmas eh?

 

[Dotty]

Can't believe no one's asked who's going to be maintaining it for you.

Whomever it is will have a preference for a particular manufacturer and will be trained on its ins and outs.

If you haven't already done so I would ask them for a quote, come back with their recommendations and we'll go from there.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Did you do this much research when picking the wife ? :love:

 

[basildog]

No but that is why I am on wife number 3 either that or it is the marzipan on the cake as cannot stand the cake itself !

 

[basildog]

Did you do this much research when picking the wife ? :love:

Also found they wear out if you use them often enough !!!!

 

[Ermintrude]

Did you do this much research when picking the wife ? :love:

Wish I had done; next one less brains and motor mouth more hooters and bum. Plus LOW maintenance