Incorrect boiler installation ?

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Rilla

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Hi, I've recently had a new boiler fitted under the ECO scheme.
The engineer that carried out the installation was in a constant rush.
After the installation he checked all the radiators were hot but I pointed out a loud banging/gurgling noise. He said it was air in the system which would settle down.
However after he had gone it kept occuring and I realised it was boiling water in the feed/expansion tank which was overflowing through the overflow pipe.
On further investigation I think the pump is on the return rather than flow pipe which I am thinking would cause the overheating problem.
Should I have the same engineer back or would you suggest another plumber?
Could this have damaged the boiler (it is a Worcester ri erp+ standard boiler)
Thanks in advance, Ril
 
I can’t see why putting the pump on the return or the flow would cause overheating of the boiler.
The feed and expansion tank could be getting a pump over from the system, which your installer should have made sure was not possible.
Would be good if a trusted engineer could eyeball the boiler plus wiring and pipework before you call the guy back. He is responsible for having it operating properly.
I am not gas qualified, but some of the gas folk on here will advise
 
My understanding of eco schemes and grants is that the fitter is only given a certain amount of time/money to do the job - might explain the rushing.
 
How much work did he actually do? In my limited knowledge of these the scheme only funds the boiler replacement and anything else is to be funded by the homeowner, did he replace the pump?
 
Stu-B said:
How much work did he actually do? In my limited knowledge of these the scheme only funds the boiler replacement and anything else is to be funded by the homeowner, did he replace the pump?
Click to expand...
The grant my grandparents got was for boiler, filter, pump, 3 port and new timer stat etc. They didn't flush the system though :rolleyes:
 
Thanks for the quick replies on a Saturday evening.
I've took a picture of the installation if it helps.
The pump flow is left to right.
I have clipped the temperature dials on the pipes.
Thanks.

20190427_200911.jpg
 
Craig Watson said:
The grant my grandparents got was for boiler, filter, pump, 3 port and new timer stat etc. They didn't flush the system though :rolleyes:
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I knew a guy who did a load of them, mainly combi’s but a few heat only’s, was told that anything other than the boiler/flue/small amount of pipework and fittings/timer-stat was down to the homeowner to pay for, it wasn’t unusual for him to charge for running a new gas pipe, plus they only got 4hours to do a full job, no wonder your grandparents fit never got flushed.
 
Stu-B said:
I knew a guy who did a load of them, mainly combi’s but a few heat only’s, was told that anything other than the boiler/flue/small amount of pipework and fittings/timer-stat was down to the homeowner to pay for, it wasn’t unusual for him to charge for running a new gas pipe, plus they only got 4hours to do a full job, no wonder your grandparents fit never got flushed.
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Suppose it depends on the company offering the grant. 4 hours is ridiculous though. Realistically all your going to attract is cowboys to undertake this sort of work.
 
The engineer is due to come back next week so I will let him have a look then.
Do you think I am safe to use it in the meantime?
I've just turned the heat setting right down and it is working but not getting really hot.
Thanks again.
 
Rilla said:
The engineer is due to come back next week so I will let him have a look then.
Do you think I am safe to use it in the meantime?
I've just turned the heat setting right down and it is working but not getting really hot.
Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Not sure to be honest. The flow direction of the pump is wrong and the return pipework also looks wrong, because the water isn't going to circulate properly the boiler will constantly overheat and shut down. Because of the incorrect installation the warranty will also be void. I personally would turn it off until the problem is corrected.
 
Craig Watson said:
Not sure to be honest. The flow direction of the pump is wrong and the return pipework also looks wrong, because the water isn't going to circulate properly the boiler will constantly overheat and shut down. Because of the incorrect installation the warranty will also be void. I personally would turn it off until the problem is corrected.
Click to expand...
Agree 100% with that. Hopefully he's out first thing on Monday to swap the pipes around.
 
Craig Watson said:
The grant my grandparents got was for boiler, filter, pump, 3 port and new timer stat etc. They didn't flush the system though :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Even through eco, its part of the warranty to flush the whole system!!! Otherwise voids all warranty by manufacture. These plonkers who do these eco schemes are given £500 to convert and swap and rush. Ive seen them rush in and do a 3 day job in 1 day. It just doesnt work and no wonder i get called to these installs for faults. The scheme is a Sod take.
 
Chris1990 said:
Even through eco, its part of the warranty to flush the whole system!!! Otherwise voids all warranty by manufacture. These plonkers who do these eco schemes are given £500 to convert and swap and rush. Ive seen them rush in and do a 3 day job in 1 day. It just doesnt work and no wonder i get called to these installs for faults. The scheme is a **** take.
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I think sometimes the installer is only given a day too, so that the customer isn't left without the use of their boiler. One of my ex work colleagues when he set up on his own, signed up to install for a local housing authority. He needed the work initially so accepted it but he was only allowed a day for a boiler swap and was only paid for 1 day. Not the same as an eco grant but they probably work on the same principles.
 
Sorry 3 days for a heat only changeover that’s ridiculous, 4 hours is possible depending size £500 for less than a days work then I wouldn’t be in a rush
Filter on flow isn’t a problem, not efficient allows contamination through boiler before collection but acceptable in manufacturer instructions
Pump definitely in wrong position and wrong direction
Why fit a drain point above boiler when it’s already built in (not relevant but questions knowledge of boiler)
What size ri is fitted and how many rads as boiler could be too powerful, what boiler was removed
Is Automatic bypass correctly fitted
List could be endless
 
Dake205 said:
Sorry 3 days for a heat only changeover that’s ridiculous, 4 hours is possible depending size £500 for less than a days work then I wouldn’t be in a rush
Filter on flow isn’t a problem, not efficient allows contamination through boiler before collection but acceptable in manufacturer instructions
Pump definitely in wrong position and wrong direction
Why fit a drain point above boiler when it’s already built in (not relevant but questions knowledge of boiler)
What size ri is fitted and how many rads as boiler could be too powerful, what boiler was removed
Is Automatic bypass correctly fitted
List could be endless
Click to expand...

4 hours including a flush no way
 
I’ve never done the schemes but I guarantee they will at least supply just a cleaner and inhibitor, magnaclean will not be mentioned or chargeable if wanted, now what does manufacturers describe as a flush, drain system, cold flush then hot flush with chemicals, drain and add inhibitor they don’t specify magnaclean so as much as you don’t like it and it’s not my personal preference, I think you can now agree it can be done
 
Dake205 said:
I’ve never done the schemes but I guarantee they will at least supply just a cleaner and inhibitor, magnaclean will not be mentioned or chargeable if wanted, now what does manufacturers describe as a flush, drain system, cold flush then hot flush with chemicals, drain and add inhibitor they don’t specify magnaclean so as much as you don’t like it and it’s not my personal preference, I think you can now agree it can be done
Click to expand...

they will say the water td quality
 
Yip but still not required as part of install, as stated it’s personal preference and cost associated, I agree with you but the instructions will advise minimum requirements which I’ve stated and I feel at that point installers can’t be held liable, so if that’s what they advise and if that’s what’s carried out under these schemes then why should installers be held liable, unfortunately it’s simple you get what you pay for, and at £500 a day I’d happily put magnacleanse on a regular swap
 
Dake205 said:
Yip but still not required as part of install, as stated it’s personal preference and cost associated, I agree with you but the instructions will advise minimum requirements which I’ve stated and I feel at that point installers can’t be held liable, so if that’s what they advise and if that’s what’s carried out under these schemes then why should installers be held liable, unfortunately it’s simple you get what you pay for, and at £500 a day I’d happily put magnacleanse on a regular swap
Click to expand...

wrong is part of the install as these warranties are void without it also inbh

also needs servicing every year
 
Dake205 said:
Yip but still not required as part of install, as stated it’s personal preference and cost associated, I agree with you but the instructions will advise minimum requirements which I’ve stated and I feel at that point installers can’t be held liable, so if that’s what they advise and if that’s what’s carried out under these schemes then why should installers be held liable, unfortunately it’s simple you get what you pay for, and at £500 a day I’d happily put magnacleanse on a regular swap
Click to expand...
Are you Gas safe registered?
As it sounds like you are not.
 
I am gsr, clearly you can tell that lol if you have doubts ask me anything, so at what point of an install mentions magnacleanse as minimum and what associations does cleaning have to do with gas safe, water quality is the first test they’ll do as they know older systems will fail with minimum cleaning requirements meaning they can void warranty, define servicing lol
 
Dake205 said:
I am gsr, clearly you can tell that lol if you have doubts ask me anything, so at what point of an install mentions magnacleanse as minimum and what associations does cleaning have to do with gas safe, water quality is the first test they’ll do as they know older systems will fail with minimum cleaning requirements meaning they can void warranty, define servicing lol
Click to expand...
No point of install recommends a magnacleanse as a minimum. But all boilers state the system should be cleansed in accordance with bs7593 and any system not cleansed to bs7593 shall void the warranty. If you read bs7593 you shall see that as a minimum you shall use a appropriate cleaner for the reccomended amount of time which is usually an hour, then drain down and refil a minimum of 3 times. Or you could as Shaun says, use chemicals and magnacleanse which will no doubt do the same job but probably a little quicker.
Do you still believe that you can swap a heat only boiler in 4 hours and still comply with the manufactures instructions and not void the warranty?
 
Dake205 said:
I am gsr, clearly you can tell that lol if you have doubts ask me anything, so at what point of an install mentions magnacleanse as minimum and what associations does cleaning have to do with gas safe, water quality is the first test they’ll do as they know older systems will fail with minimum cleaning requirements meaning they can void warranty, define servicing lol
Click to expand...
So have you sent us your gas safe details?
 
Dake205 said:
I am gsr, clearly you can tell that lol if you have doubts ask me anything, so at what point of an install mentions magnacleanse as minimum and what associations does cleaning have to do with gas safe, water quality is the first test they’ll do as they know older systems will fail with minimum cleaning requirements meaning they can void warranty, define servicing lol
Click to expand...
If you are GS then please provide your details as asked repeatedly
 
Dake205 said:
I am gsr, clearly you can tell that lol if you have doubts ask me anything, so at what point of an install mentions magnacleanse as minimum and what associations does cleaning have to do with gas safe, water quality is the first test they’ll do as they know older systems will fail with minimum cleaning requirements meaning they can void warranty, define servicing lol
Click to expand...
Also we cannot tell as you do not have the GSR badge next to your name.
 
Yes, the main problem was the flow and return pipes where wrong, you can see the flow now goes to the pump. The filter is now on the return pipe to the boiler.
Also a bypass as been fitted.
 
Have you got a pic of your airing cupboard, you may not need a bypass depending on setup. If you do require it though it will need moving.
 
I've had a look and I believe its a three position valve (y plan?) so would this be ok? I am assuming if no demand for heat or water then the valve is in the middle and so there is a path back to the boiler in case of frost protection coming on?
 
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