Help needed with strange looking (to me) Bath drain connector

[gcgold]

I hope someone can shed some light. Boss Lady bought a bath that weighs 27 stones for our loft conversion and I have been lumbered with the job of fitting it. Mate who is a plumber has helped me get waste pipes etc installed but doesn't want to know the bath, and who can blame him.Now that the joists have been re-inforced and the 25mm WBP ply is down and we somehow managed to get the bath up into the room ( long story) I have decided to have a look at the bath. I always thought I would have to connect the drain from underneath (ie via the ceiling in the kitchen) so no probs with accessing the 40mm waste pipe.See the attached picture. The bath has a sort of void underneath about 45mm high. Connected to teh plug hole is a flexi connector which can be bent and extended to virtually any position. My problem is how to connect this to a bath trap. the end has an outside diameter of approx 32mm. There is a run of about 3 metres so I want to use 40mm Waste pipe.Any suggestions / help would be gratefully received :rolleyes2:

 

[bennygas]

alright, just googled "bath with no overflow", found this as first result, dunno if you've seen this...Nova-Flo®: Stop overflowing baths automatically

 

[gcgold]

Looks great. Thanks a lot I really appreciate all your help. Happy Days:clap:

 

[Puddle]

alright, just googled "bath with no overflow", found this as first result, dunno if you've seen this...Nova-Flo®: Stop overflowing baths automatically

You do need an over flow with this unit,idea is water goes down over flow and cuts off water supply

 

[gcgold]

Aaaarrrrrrggggghhhhh Just looked at the installation instructions for teh Nova-Flo and it fits to the pipe coming from the Bath overflow and the monster doesnt have one. Anyone want to buy a house with a part complete loft conversion with a very heavy and nice looking bath thrown in ::

 

[gcgold]

Is there any reason why I cannot build a shower waste trap into the floor beside the bath in case it overflows ?

 

[bennygas]

aww that's a shame. sorry about that, get your hopes up etc, gotta be honest, I didn't read too much about the product, just saw it and thought, that sounds alright - well spotted puddle. like i said earlier though, ideal standard have a system whereby there is no overflow connection needed on some of their double ended baths - instead they have an arrangement whereby the plughole has an integrated overflow system (so if you have wall mounted taps, say, then all you see in the bath is the waste outlet, which has a posh cover over it etc). the thing that fits on the bottom of tha bath is a bit of a contraption but it seems to work quite well. I don't know whether you could get hold of one of these wastes as a separate kit, or perhaps if someone else make such a device.

 

[gcgold]

My current thinking is to fit one of these into the floor and connect into the waste pipe via a hepvo. site this adjacent to the Bath but will be out of sight . Maybe I am being a bit dim but cant see how this shouldnt work / get an adverse reaction from the BCO.

 

[JCplumb]

Any external drain would need a fair bit of seperate wastepipe before joining the waste from the bath to prevent your 8 gazillion gallons of bathwater coming up from it when emptying the bath/swimming pool

 

[JCplumb]

Thinking about it, whoever owns the house just needs telling that installing this bath without an overflow could potentially cost them many thousands to repair the property if it overflows. Also advise them that it is very doubtful that an insurance company would cover this due to the bath not having the basic safety feature of an overflow.
'Boss lady doesn't want a hole drilling' might not cut it with the insurers.
If the boss lady is also the house owner, just make it very clear to her, and get something in writing to cover your back.
You could try a shower waste but what's the guarantee that it would catch all the water?

 

[gcgold]

Any external drain would need a fair bit of seperate wastepipe before joining the waste from the bath to prevent your 8 gazillion gallons of bathwater coming up from it when emptying the bath/swimming pool

I see what you mean. Would a hepvo fitted on the external drain help in preventing the bathwater coming back up the external drain? Could probably get a metre of separate pipe before joining to the bath waste. At a push could run a separate pipe all the way to the main stack via a strap on-boss, but a bit of a job .

 

[Puddle]

If you have kids,you could get the gabby one and sit him in the bath while filling it with a few breeze blocks around there waist,when the screams stop or get gargley sounding you will know its time to turn off taps


This has the added advantge that if bath to full, once child removed water level will be reduced to correct leve

Failing that look at some small sensor that can be fitted to detect level of water and sound alarm or cut water off

I personally would drill overflow and plead ignorance,women only sulk a while before they find something else to cause problems over

IMHO


Sent from my iffy phone

 

[JCplumb]

HepVo's are good but I'm not sure I'd trust one to hold back the amount of water you will be dealing with here.
In normal circumstances it could be fine, but the bath waste could freeze or get blocked as it goes outside the house, the stack could get blocked etc. This will guarantee that your bath will empty out of the shower waste.
The only way to be safe really is to do a seperate waste from the shower.
With regards to the shower waste under the bath, to be sure of catching all spills and overflow you would need a wetroom floor type of drain and the floor would need to be waterproofed and uneven in that there would need to be a flow to this waste. The incline towards the waste would need to be enough to ensure that a running tap (x litres/min) would all be directed to the waste. Or maybe a 1 inch step all round the wet-floor area to prevent any overspill.
You really need to convince her to let you drill a hole imo.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i think boss lady is actually his wife. from the first line of his first post he says "our loft conversion".

 

[gcgold]

Thinking about it, whoever owns the house just needs telling that installing this bath without an overflow could potentially cost them many thousands to repair the property if it overflows. Also advise them that it is very doubtful that an insurance company would cover this due to the bath not having the basic safety feature of an overflow.
'Boss lady doesn't want a hole drilling' might not cut it with the insurers.
If the boss lady is also the house owner, just make it very clear to her, and get something in writing to cover your back.
You could try a shower waste but what's the guarantee that it would catch all the water?

Its my / our house so I cant tell the Boss Lady anything :crazy: Think you have a point regarding Insurance. It is a 'Wet Room' with waterproof backing boards and I will now be tanking the whole area rather than just around the shower area as originally planned. The shower waste will be installed lower than the floor tiles and I will be doing by damnedest to ensure there is a slight slope to the waste from all around the bath area. But even if the tiles were just level most of the the water will find its way to the drain, some could find its way to the shower area and no doubt there would be some areas with a bit of water sitting in puddles a few mm deep. Depending upon how long it is before anyone notices damage could be slight. We always turn off the water when going away for hols etc. I can isolate the water supply to this room very easily if we happen to go away in Winter and need to leave the water on for heating. Have a mate who works on Insurance Claims, he tells me it is fairly common for baths to overflow onto the floors of houses because the overflows didnt work correctly/ had been badly fitted or leaked. Problem I have is that the monster is up there (and what a job that was) and drilling a hole into the expensive monster is not an option. Even if attempted a claim against the supplier I dont know how I could get the bath back down. All in all I think I will just have to try the shower waste Incidentally the Boss Lady has now filled the bath in the original bathroom, the water level keeps rising even after it has reached the overflow ! Presumably the flow from the taps exceed the rate at which the water can exit via the overflow

 

[gcgold]

i think boss lady is actually his wife. from the first line of his first post he says "our loft conversion".

You got it Steve ! Also known as SWMBO (if you didnt watch Rumpole of the Bailey that's She Who Must Be Obeyed) :crazy:

 

[gcgold]

Failing that look at some small sensor that can be fitted to detect level of water and sound alarm or cut water off

I personally would drill overflow and plead ignorance,women only sulk a while before they find something else to cause problems over

IMHO


Sent from my iffy phone

Good idea about the sensor I will look into that - cheers

Not too sure about "I personally would drill overflow and plead ignorance,women only sulk a while before they find something else to cause problems over"

I often plead ignorance to her but it never works. She is an Interior Designer so spoiling the look of this bath would never be forgiven and I would die as a result (albeit a very slow, quiet and painful death) :coolgleamA:

Sensor and / or floor waste seems to be the only option

 

[JCplumb]

Well it sounds like a fair old project, good luck with it.
Keep us updated and post some pics if you can

 

[ecowarm]

Have a look here http://www.ideal-standard.hu/letoltheto_katalogus/first_bath_2008.pdf not sure Ideal sell separate from bath but would meet your needs page 5-6

 

[gcgold]

Have a look here http://www.ideal-standard.hu/letoltheto_katalogus/first_bath_2008.pdf not sure Ideal sell separate from bath but would meet your needs page 5-6

Many Thanks ecowarm - I cannot get over how many of you are prepared to help.

I had a look and thought how clever but fairly simple. However it relies on having somewhere (a broad rim) to have a control to open & close the waste and guess what ? the monster hasn't !.

Boss lady has googled "what do you do if bath does not have an overflow" the first result is a very interesting wikianswer .

whilst this has been written by an american and he refers to the US rules he basically is saying what I suspected - that an overflow is as much use as a chocolate fireguard if the bath taps are left running full blast.

So back to the waste drain in the floor and a search for a water sensor that will activate some powered valves that I found on t'interweb.

Hope the BCO is in a good mood when he does the final inspection :cool3:

 

[JCplumb]

Ooh that's clever, I like it a lot
(The ideal standard overflow that ecowarm linked to)

 

[ecowarm]

Good luck with the challenge gc

 

[GQuigley67]

easiest option would probably be leaving the wife !!

i wouldnt trust a bath without an overflow anyway, but then again if its a wet room with a gully on the floor with a run in the floor then it would be hunky dory i'd imagine

 

[gcgold]

easiest option would probably be leaving the wife !!

i wouldnt trust a bath without an overflow anyway, but then again if its a wet room with a gully on the floor with a run in the floor then it would be hunky dory i'd imagine

Leaving the wife would only solve some of the issues ::

having read the wikki answer I am now more comfortable that a gully / floor waste is probably going to be more efficient than an overflow - just hope the BCO will accept it.

 

[Mike Jackson]

I doubt building control will even notice the bath, let alone an overflow.

 

[bennygas]

that's the thing I was on about ecowarm - nice one for finding it, i had no joy at all.