Gas safe regs - what gas work can be undertaken by other tradespersons?

[mattiker]

After being shot down twice yesterday, thread closed twice, hence this new one (Croppie, please have a little patients!). Not every non-GSR on here is a have-a-go-cowboy looking to blow themselves up. Neither am I interested in the slightest in breaking the law - or putting me or my family at risk, on the contrary I'm happy to get my wallet out when needed. However I do like to know where I stand with regards the law and regulations - not only that I like to know exactly what I'm paying for if I have to call in a GSR techie. So before you close this thread with a blunt 'stop playing with it and go pay a gsr guy' reply - read this, taken from the Gas Safe website:

What gas work can be undertaken by other tradespersons?
If the work required only involves the replacement of a water carrying component e.g. a pump or central
heating control valve, housed within the boiler’s decorative casing, the work could be undertaken by another
competent tradesperson e.g. plumber/electrician. Providing the work could be undertaken without having to
break a combustion chamber seal (see Can I take the case off my gas appliance? below), or disturbing
any gas carrying component, it would not need to be undertaken by a Gas Safe registered engineer.

I cant post the link but google for "What gas work can be undertaken by other tradespersons" then click the first link that appears.

The important bit in that quote for me is 'competent tradesperson' which whether this applies to me is open for debate - but I'd prefer to a sensible discussion about it instead of simply having my threads closed/deleted.

So there you have it - the facts straight from the horses mouth.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Depends really, anything unrelated to gas or airflow can be worked on by the DIYer, without any formal training.

Me and a few other lads are currently working on a load of videos that are going up on Youtube soonish, that is going to completely demystify Gas Plumbing and boiler repair, installation, inspection. We have already completed videos (just need editing) for things like Gas Valves, Pilot and Burners, Fans, Air Pressure Switches etc etc, on loads of different boilers, basically everything that a GSE will need to know, they are going to be made public though to get view count, plumbing videos on Youtube are very popular and currently there is nothing useful in relation to Gas.

The Internet truly is human kinds greatest leveler.

nope the internet is business biggest danger

 

[gav8]

competence is a doddle to define in regard to working on gas systems. A person who has trained and passed the relevent assessments laid down by the relevant training authorities and then gains membership of the relevant registration body.

So if you have got your gas qualifications ie ccn1 and boiler or fire tickets and then join Gas Safe Register, you are deemed competant in the eyes of the law to work on fires and boilers and nothing else is deemed competent in this fine country (england and the various attached bits at present)

GSR is no measure of a persons competence in regards gas works, there are literally hundreds, possible thousands, that are on the GSR, but have not got a clue what they are doing, it really does need a massive overhaul, with exemptions for lifetime strikeouts from registering again for incompetent persons.

 

[hammers4spanner]

gav8 are you gsr registered?

 

[gav8]

nope the internet is business biggest danger

Care to expand on that? In the past few years people who are on GSR have uploaded hundreds of videos in relation to plumbing, TomPlum and Plumberparts, to name but two, they have covered everything that they teach you in college and then some, an average householder with a desire to learn, could literally watch all their videos and with a bit of practice, could easily be competent enough to fit a bathroom, re-pipe a house, install rads, water tanks etc etc

I can't see it effecting business that much, at the end of the day, if someone wants to learn, then that should be their right.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

GSR is no measure of a persons competence in regards gas works, there are literally hundreds, possible thousands, that are on the GSR, but have not got a clue what they are doing, it really does need a massive overhaul, with exemptions for lifetime strikeouts from registering again for incompetent persons.

I mentioned 'religion' of GSR earlier because few seem willing to question the rules, process or law.

As a long time plumber, I am also a scientist with an open mind.

As for the op's quest for 'root cause analysis' I suggest he reads Matthew Crawford's book 'shop craft is soul craft' which will explain better than I, that there is always something we do not know. Furthermore, getting diagnosis wrong, is all about experience and learning - I have got plenty of stuff wrong in my time, and will do in the future.

I suggest the op asks those in the medical profession if they ever get any diagnosis wrong...because root cause analysis has alluded them on many an occassion.

 

[lame plumber]

GSR is no measure of a persons competence in regards gas works, there are literally hundreds, possible thousands, that are on the GSR, but have not got a clue what they are doing, it really does need a massive overhaul, with exemptions for lifetime strikeouts from registering again for incompetent persons.

competence is what you have to prove to be legally allowed to work on gas! ability and experience are something else. As for as putting videos on u tube for gas appliances another saying comes to mind: " A little knowledge is dangerous" All the videos I have seen on u tube in regard to Agas and boilers and the like never cover the whole story and often miss out some of the major safety aspects, which puts people at risk. I expect yours will put more people at risk if they think its that easy then they can have a go!

 

[gav8]

gav8 are you gsr registered?

All 5 of us on this project are, 50 odd years of experience between us, bit daft of us to be doing a project like this if we weren't :hand: 5Live have already mentioned us and that is all i would like to give away at the moment.

 

[TBServices]

There's nothing useful relating to gas because its not appropriate! Lol. I still think it should be illegal to buy gas carrying parts without GS registration.

 

[Whl4852]

All 5 of us on this project are, 50 odd years of experience between us, bit daft of us to be doing a project like this if we weren't :hand: 5Live have already mentioned us and that is all i would like to give away at the moment.

How many years experience each?

 

[Dotty]

Depends really, anything unrelated to gas or airflow can be worked on by the DIYer, without any formal training.

Me and a few other lads are currently working on a load of videos that are going up on Youtube soonish, that is going to completely demystify Gas Plumbing and boiler repair, installation, inspection. We have already completed videos (just need editing) for things like Gas Valves, Pilot and Burners, Fans, Air Pressure Switches etc etc, on loads of different boilers, basically everything that a GSE will need to know, they are going to be made public though to get view count, plumbing videos on Youtube are very popular and currently there is nothing useful in relation to Gas.

The Internet truly is human kinds greatest leveler.

And you will NOT be advertising those video's on this forum.

How incredibly irresponsible!

We will not be privy to, nor part contribitutive thereof, to ANY information that promotes illegal working on a boiler!

 

[kay-jay]

nope the internet is business biggest danger

Agreed. Who wants to run a business when you can look at big knockers all day

 

[gav8]

And you will NOT be advertising those video's on this forum.

How incredibly irresponsible!

We will not be privy to, nor part contribitutive thereof, to ANY information that promotes illegal working on a boiler!

I knew there would be a lot of hostility in regards gas/boiler videos on a forum like this. The fact remains, up and coming plumbers that are in college or on courses are crying out for videos like this, which completely demystifys the whole thing, makes it clearer and easier to understand and shows it is not has hard as the textbooks make out it is at NVQ lv3.

It is not about promoting illegal working on appliances in the home, but the distribution of knowledge for any that want it, we have already seen legal specialists in regards the publishing of such information and Youtube have no problem with hosting it.

 

[Dotty]

I knew there would be a lot of hostility in regards gas/boiler videos on a forum like this. The fact remains, up and coming plumbers that are in college or on courses are crying out for videos like this, which completely demystifys the whole thing, makes it clearer and easier to understand and shows it is not has hard as the textbooks make out it is at NVQ lv3.

It is not about promoting illegal working on appliances in the home, but the distribution of knowledge for any that want it, we have already seen legal specialists in regards the publishing of such information and Youtube have no problem with hosting it.

It doesn't matter how you dress it up or how you attempt to justify your actions, You are not advertising said video's on this forum.

And your so called 'legal specialists' need to bone up on the gas regs.

 

[Plumb Ugly]

Gas safe registration is a minimum competance level for working on gas appliances it doesn't make you an expert by itself but here's the clincher it does mean you should be able to work SAFELY without either causing an unsafe situation or over looking one. If you aren't gsr you can't prove this to be the case

 

[lame plumber]

I knew there would be a lot of hostility in regards gas/boiler videos on a forum like this. The fact remains, up and coming plumbers that are in college or on courses are crying out for videos like this, which completely demystifys the whole thing, makes it clearer and easier to understand and shows it is not has hard as the textbooks make out it is at NVQ lv3.

It is not about promoting illegal working on appliances in the home, but the distribution of knowledge for any that want it, we have already seen legal specialists in regards the publishing of such information and Youtube have no problem with hosting it.

if you are justifying videos for teaching purpouses, remember most students just go to sleep when the video screen comes down. the best way to teach students is to explain each item using the books and awhite board, then give them actual examples to examine and learn with, far better than another video!

 

[Whl4852]

I knew there would be a lot of hostility in regards gas/boiler videos on a forum like this. The fact remains, up and coming plumbers that are in college or on courses are crying out for videos like this, which completely demystifys the whole thing, makes it clearer and easier to understand and shows it is not has hard as the textbooks make out it is at NVQ lv3.

It is not about promoting illegal working on appliances in the home, but the distribution of knowledge for any that want it, we have already seen legal specialists in regards the publishing of such information and Youtube have no problem with hosting it.

Why would we want videos at college when we use the real thing?

 

[gav8]

And your so called 'legal specialists' need to bone up on the gas regs.

They are the 4th largest Law firm in London and are part of the Magic Circle, you may want to google them, we choose them for a very specific reason.

I thought it would be the Admins we would approach in regards advertising on this forum, not the forum moderators? We are not going to need to advertise most likely, bar Youtube obviously.

 

[gav8]

Why would we want videos at college when we use the real thing?

Why are videos on youtube, in relation to Plumbing, packed (in the comments) with Plumbers? Go look if you don't believe me.

 

[Whl4852]

Why are videos on youtube, in relation to Plumbing, packed (in the comments) with Plumbers? Go look if you don't believe me.

Why would a plumber watch ' DIY basic soldering' come on mate, get a grip on reality and stop dreaming

 

[Dotty]

They are the 4th largest Law firm in London and are part of the Magic Circle, you may want to google them, we choose them for a very specific reason.

I thought it would be the Admins we would approach in regards advertising on this forum, not the forum moderators? We are not going to need to advertise most likely, bar Youtube obviously.

And being in the magic circle renders them fit to advise on the legalities of promoting DIY gas repair?

What do they recommend? "Don't try this at home boys and girls!"

Yeah, cos that'd stand up in a court of law when Silly Billy is standing there pointing his finger at you after having killed his family after watching one of your self help films.

And admin take their lead from us in matters such as this.

Besides, Manufacturers have done it already, consulted their legal teams and only show these videos as part of an authorised training course.

 

[gav8]

Why would a plumber watch ' DIY basic soldering' come on mate, get a grip on reality and stop dreaming

I never even mentioned soldering, what are you going on about? As an example, there are hundreds more..
HOW TO CHANGE AN IMMERSION HEATER - Plumbing Tips - YouTube

 

[gav8]

And being in the magic circle renders them fit to advise on the legalities of promoting DIY gas repair?

Yes, in regards liability to us, it certainly does and once again, we are not promoting DIY gas repair.

 

[Whl4852]

I never even mentioned soldering, what are you going on about? As an example, there are hundreds more..
HOW TO CHANGE AN IMMERSION HEATER - Plumbing Tips - YouTube

You answered my original question with a question. I wanted to know why videos would be useful at a FE college where they promote hands on learning? we have NEVER watched video, and especially nothing from youtube, unless it's too laugh at some clueless diy'er trying to stop water pouring everywhere.

You can buy gas dvd's though, just googled it. If its such a massive lucrative market why hasn't everybody jumped on the bandwagon? Why not ask for funding from gas safe? Or maybe just putting their names to it. I think you'd be wasting our time in my honest opinion. And that opinion is from somebody who you were potentially aiming these at, a student. I wish you luck in your venture.

 

[nicro3]

Who is in this magic circle Paul Daniels QC?

 

[Whn1]

I knew there would be a lot of hostility in regards gas/boiler videos on a forum like this. The fact remains, up and coming plumbers that are in college or on courses are crying out for videos like this, which completely demystifys the whole thing, makes it clearer and easier to understand and shows it is not has hard as the textbooks make out it is at NVQ lv3.

It is not about promoting illegal working on appliances in the home, but the distribution of knowledge for any that want it, we have already seen legal specialists in regards the publishing of such information and Youtube have no problem with hosting it.

I never cried out for videos like these, I don't think any of us did, I had the hunger.
If people need things such as gas works to be made easier for themselves then maybe it isn't for them.
The game is what it is, it takes a certain kind of person and I worked my heart out for years to become the engineer I am today. The videos are irresponsible.

 

[AWheating]

the only person who will want to or need to watch a video on youtube will be somebody not competent to do such work tbh.

if you want to learn then go to college doing a structured course and learn alongside a decent engineer and become competent. You can make a little money from youtube adverts but i cant see the point, if you want to make good profit off youtube review new tech items like the latest phones etc....

now wheres that video of how to make a blow up doll...... i mean chicken curry

 

[Dotty]

Yes, in regards liability to us, it certainly does and once again, we are not promoting DIY gas repair.

You will be completely liable. Don't talk tosh!

And yes you would be! Do you honestly think that putting a caveat on the videos will prevent non gsr's watching and attempting the repair of their gas appliances?

Your naivety is astounding!

 

[Whl4852]

Your naivety is astounding!

:iagree:

 

[gav8]

You will be completely liable. Don't talk tosh!

And yes you would be! Do you honestly think that putting a caveat on the videos will prevent non gsr's watching and attempting the repair of their gas appliances?

Your naivety is astounding!

Says you, someone who is arguing with a legal document we have already got, pertaining to the fact that it will not, issued by a top 40, in the whole wide world, law firm.

:grin:

 

[gav8]

:iagree:

You just said you were a student, I have 15 years on you.