Solid fuel back boiler.

[Best]

agree with you mate but the regs have changed anything hot water is g3 registered these days

Assume it would be okay for a non G3 person to work on a thermal store?

 

[bobbychocolate]

Still possible to use a combined thermal store cylinder.
A direct type will mean you just need two of 28mm gravity primaries connecting into the tank connections. The pumped circuit just come off the cylinder to rads and controlled by a stat - on cylinder, or perhaps advisable on primary return at cylinder.
Various types of these cylinders, some with a mains coil and some with external exchanger for mains hot.
None of them require unvented regs, as not technically unvented cylinders and have under 15 litre mains quantity.

I did see one of these being piped recently and it looked awesome all came pre piped with labelled stubs and pump attached. But would I be able to run it on the ground floor??

 

[Ric2013]

Assume it would be okay for a non G3 person to work on a thermal store?

I'd have assumed the same, if the store is vented.

If installing a stove legally, you need to be either going down the notify building control route or registered as a competent person for solid fuel with HETAS, OFTEC, or similar organisation. I've seen illegal installs that work and are reasonably safe, but your original post did make my hair stand on end slightly because you don't seem to understand the basic principles of a gravity system.

Broadly speaking you need to consider expansion, boiling (water expands 1600x when it boils), and where to dump the heat. The system has to be idiot proof and has to be safe to use even if the fire is fully loaded, you fall asleep, and the electricity supply or pump fails. This means gravity circulation is a must. You need an open vent, which means you really do need a header tank. Some clever computer controlled solid fuel sources dump cold water through the boiler if the system overheats (via a mechanical valve) and this probably wrecks the boiler but it does mean you can seal the system instead of using a header tank, but what you have is a basic backboiler and this wouldn't be appropriate. This doesn't mean you HAVE to have a hot water cylinder, but it does mean you HAVE to have gravity circulation. Also, find out what the heat output from that boiler is - it may or may not be huge.

If you really want to go down the DIY route, I suggest you get information from the solid fuel association and do a bit of your own research then come back to us. At the moment (as of your original post) you are barking very much up the wrong tree.

Not sure why your stove has 4 ports. I have seen 4 port backboilers that seem to be designed for semi-gravity systems where 2 ports are pumped and the other two are feed and vent connexions and these will work if one high and one low are blanked, but I see no advantage in blanking off and wouldn't do it unless I was sure that that boiler was designed to be used in that way.

 

[Ric2013]

I did see one of these being piped recently and it looked awesome all came pre piped with labelled stubs and pump attached. But would I be able to run it on the ground floor??

You can have a thermal store on the ground floor, but your backboiler needs to be able to work on gravity in case of a power fail. So if you normally pump your water to the thermal store and there is a power/pump fail, you will have a potentially dangerous situation.

 

[bobbychocolate]

I'd have assumed the same, if the store is vented.

If installing a stove legally, you need to be either going down the notify building control route or registered as a competent person for solid fuel with HETAS, OFTEC, or similar organisation. I've seen illegal installs that work and are reasonably safe, but your original post did make my hair stand on end slightly because you don't seem to understand the basic principles of a gravity system.

Broadly speaking you need to consider expansion, boiling (water expands 1600x when it boils), and where to dump the heat. The system has to be idiot proof and has to be safe to use even if the fire is fully loaded, you fall asleep, and the electricity supply or pump fails. This means gravity circulation is a must. You need an open vent, which means you really do need a header tank. Some clever computer controlled solid fuel sources dump cold water through the boiler if the system overheats (via a mechanical valve) and this probably wrecks the boiler but it does mean you can seal the system instead of using a header tank, but what you have is a basic backboiler and this wouldn't be appropriate. This doesn't mean you HAVE to have a hot water cylinder, but it does mean you HAVE to have gravity circulation. Also, find out what the heat output from that boiler is - it may or may not be huge.

If you really want to go down the DIY route, I suggest you get information from the solid fuel association and do a bit of your own research then come back to us. At the moment (as of your original post) you are barking very much up the wrong tree.

Not sure why your stove has 4 ports. I have seen 4 port backboilers that seem to be designed for semi-gravity systems where 2 ports are pumped and the other two are feed and vent connexions and these will work if one high and one low are blanked, but I see no advantage in blanking off and wouldn't do it unless I was sure that that boiler was designed to be used in that way.

It has become quite apparent that the way it was installed before which i was hoping to copy while just bypassing the tank was not very good and possibly dangerous it had 5 radiators and the coil of a fortic piped to it in a completely enclosed system with a pump. There were no tanks feeding it or venting to. Anyway i really don't have the space to install so I'm going to just put a normal burner in the fire place and get rid of the back boiler idea all together. What heating system would you suggest for a small cottage with no chance of a tank on the second floor?? I'm pretty much stumped and short of putting in a air conditioning system or air source heat pump I don't know what to do.??

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Assume it would be okay for a non G3 person to work on a thermal store?

i would say same rules apply

 

[Ric2013]

i would say same rules apply

What if it were, say, an OLD Gledhill Boilermate (I quote the model because I'm familiar with it). It's open vented, so how is it anything like an unvented cylinder?

 

[Ric2013]

it had 5 radiators and the coil of a fortic piped to it in a completely enclosed system with a pump.

Are you sure that the Fortic tank had a coil in it and wasn't a direct cylinder?

 

[Ric2013]

Small cottage, no loft? No mains gas or oil, I'm assuming? Insulate and draftproof well and use electric boiler/electric heaters?

I'm not saying your idea of putting a woodburning stove with backboiler in is daft - it's exactly what I'd do in your position! I'm just saying your plan as originally described in detail was dangerous. I'd probably use some form of vented thermal store with immersion heater backup pumped to boiler and (gravity) heat leak radiator at high level. Your header tank wouldn't need to be huge. But for C's sake, at least pay someone with the knowledge to do a site visit and design your system to be safe is all I'm saying.

If you want a small stove without backboiler with a small output, have a look at the "Hobbit" model. I saw one at a friend's house and was quite impressed.

Bedtime reading: How to install a Wood Burning Stove - fit a wood burner yourself

 

[ShaunCorbs]

What if it were, say, an OLD Gledhill Boilermate (I quote the model because I'm familiar with it). It's open vented, so how is it anything like an unvented cylinder?

if its mains feed it comes under g3 if its tank feed no need for g3