Lost a job to an illegal Gas fitter.

[mackie1983]

Just lost a job to an illegal Gas fitter, he's a handyman! Not even a plumber! He's apparently going to get his substandard installation signed off by a GSR Engineer though.

Why would any GSR Engineer go through all that training just to sign off some cowboys work!

He quoted £2000 for a full central heating install.

Rant over.........

 

[Killy Bing]

Be sour, when you see the boiler box outside, ring gas safe and say someones tampering with the gas......

 

[gasmanrob]

Call gas safe and ask for the number of your local chap, keep it to hand wait till you know the job is due to start and call him up explain you have reason to believe someone is working with gas that you believe not to be gsr and ask if he would mind calling in and double checking. You looked at the job so you should be able to gauge at which point into the job he will be interfering with the gas and call your man the day before.

Even if it is signed off accordingly the work was carried out by a non gsr without supervision. I'd let the apprentice have a crack at it under my supervision after all he is there to learn but under no scum stance would I sign anyone's work off I didn't sit my exams and pay my fees to be under cut my people like that..

it's up to us to police the industry as much as gas safe

 

[Dannypipe]

Report him. Seriously. I haven't ever done it, but these days I would. Too many crap jobs I see with blank Benchmark books, and no one knows who fitted the boiler.

 

[tamz]

Shyt happens.

 

[SimonG]

Forget about it. Lifes too short. Onwards and upwards.

 

[tamz]

If it is signed off it is not illegal.
The idiot signing it off is taking responsibility.
There are plenty out there who couldn't solder a pipe chasing heating jobs. Some GSR'd firms only hold their registration through subbies.
It is not right but that is the way it is.

 

[gasmanrob]

No don't forget about it. This goes back to what I was saying earlier.. We need to hold a bit of pride protect our industry

if you let it pass you are part of the problem!

Had you of lost to another gsr then fair game but you haven't and this isn't on! People moan about current rates and this is why!!!

How can anyone say let it go, what if he kills someone maybe not this time or the next but these things can and do happen.
I AM UTTERLY GOB SMACKED that anyone would suggest letting it go. You all moan about membership fees and then not seeing people prosecuted.. WHAT you expect gas safe to just know someone is fitting illegally no they need to be informed.

and if he isn't being supervised whilst doing it he is breaking the law up until the point someone signs it off.

 

[Ermintrude]

Think it's illegal to pretend to be gas safe too!

 

[tamz]

Report it if you feel like it but you will go blue in the face waiting for something to happen over it.
It is not illegal if it is signed off.

 

[Ermintrude]

Plakka! 2k bit cheap for boiler rads and tube?

 

[tamz]

Plakka! 2k bit cheap for boiler rads and tube?

It is but shyte is cheap

 

[gasmanrob]

I give up you moan like hell that nothing ever happens, moan that the fees are too much and yet you're not willing to do anything about it. If you feel that strongly that nothing ever happens to them don't bother paying! If you're that confident you'll get away with it, you'll be a few hundred quid better off.

Better still save a few quid and use speed fit for gas after all it's barrier pipe right? In fact why bother with an analyser I mean the flame pitch looks ok.

I mean after all no one will chase you over it, because nobody died right?

 

[Best]

Some Gas qualified people are not from a plumbing or even a building trade background, so I wouldn't want them doing any work on any plumbing.
Let's be honest about this, there are people out there, unqualified & qualified in gas & they are a disgrace, but equally, there are plenty unqualified that their workmanship can put Gas engineers work to shame.
I am sure there are a lot of plumbing firms with only one man gas qualified & signing it all off.
It has to be legal surely, as long as the unqualified guy doesn't touch live gas in any way, or service boilers later?

 

[Reg Man]

Signed off by GSR turd or not. The gas work is still illegal and needs reporting to the HSE.

 

[Best]

I have heard of a natural gas salesman advising a potential customer to " get a plumber to do the gas work & get it signed off by a gas man" ! Just so they might sign up fo gas conversion.

When does a gas job done by a unqualified person become legal? Surely simply when it is inspected & signed off by a Gas Safe person?

 

[Reg Man]

I have heard of a natural gas salesman advising a potential customer to " get a plumber to do the gas work & get it signed off by a gas man" ! Just so they might sign up fo gas conversion.

When does a gas job done by a unqualified person become legal? Surely simply when it is inspected & signed off by a Gas Safe person?

Never! Read the Gas Safety (Installation & use) Regulations. The gas work has been carried out illegally, it can't then be not illegal because a qualified registered person signs It off.

 

[albatross]

I would have a go at absolutely destroying this guy for many reasons.
Get as much information as you can. His names/addresses/phone/van reg/details of guy commissioning it/cust details too. Pass it to Gas Safe/HSE/trading standards/local council building control. When the job starts ring Transco out to cap the meter. RIDDOR it too.

It may not do much but then again it may. It's worth a go. It will make you feel good! At the very least you may cause so much disruption that he never tries it again/cust never employs a cowboy/gsr stops signing his jobs off.

This guy is effectively stealing thousands of pounds from you and other legal guys and will carry on if he can. He is probably endangering customers lives too. The installation is not legal even if a gsr signs it off. If he has run a gas pipe to the boiler etc. unsupervised it's not legal. The law states a person must be competent, qualified and registered to do and gas work. Getting another person to look at it after does not get round the law. If the gsr signs it off as his own he is breaking the law too.

As much effort as possible needs to be made to make it very hard for these guys to operate and to change the attitudes of customers prepared to use these cowboys. I am no fan of the authorities but we cannot complain they do nothing if we don't protect our trade and the public by reporting cowboys to them.

If someone pretends to be a doctor/policeman/solicitor/teacher do people in the trade shrug their shoulders and carry on without reporting it? I think not. You could also tell the local papers they may have some fun with it!

 

[Ermintrude]

Just print off a few threads on illegal installs and some hall of shame stuff out in envelope and post through custards door.

 

[acecharly]

Aside from the fact a person should be competent, qualified and registered to do gas work, its also an offence to profess to be a member of such a class of persons so in a court of law you would be deemed as being guilty by the very fact that you have offered your services in the first place unless you stated clearly to the customer that a gsr would come in to do the gas.

Now id say you would be a bit stupid to agree to that when there are many other competent persons out there who could do the job with confidence.

In my opinion more needs to be made of the responsibility of the customer to ensure the person is qualified and that on arrival a persons membership should be checked to confirm they are gsr and that they could be fined for not doing this. How many times do you ever get asked for your card? ive never been asked once, so while this is the way it is things will never change.

 

[London Plumbing]

report the cheap skate! We loose enough work because of some butchers who have no qualifications and no papers!
Don't even think twice about it just report him after all you just lost your job...!

 

[jefaz]

Maybe he is going to do all the rest and not touch the gas run or the flue? You never know.
Then it isn't illegal is it? I'm not saying I agree with what he's doing because I don't
Transco won't cap the meter and RIDDOR it if there is nothing wrong!

 

[acecharly]

Maybe he is going to do all the rest and not touch the gas run or the flue? You never know.
Then it isn't illegal is it? I'm not saying I agree with what he's doing because I don't
Transco won't cap the meter and RIDDOR it if there is nothing wrong!

Aslong as the customer knows he/she isn't gas safe and he doesn't say that he/she is. Then its not but I bet he didn't say to the customer he wasn't probably goes round and drops that he will use a gsr at the end.

 

[jefaz]

Aslong as the customer knows he/she isn't gas safe and he doesn't say that he/she is. Then its not but I bet he didn't say to the customer he wasn't probably goes round and drops that he will use a gsr at the end.

Aye maybe. It's a Shan trick whichever you look at it!!!

 

[Crinkmeister]

gasmanrob, I agree with you. If I was the customer then I'd want the whole job to be done by the guy who ultimately signs it off. How will the guy who signs it off know that absolutely everything has been done correctly? He doesn't. So there will always be that doubt. I have had "handymen" quote ridiculous amounts for plumbing jobs (not gas) at my rental property which a plumber that I know has eventually done for a fraction of the cost because he knows what he is doing! This customer is looking for the cheapest upfront job without thinking of the consequences

 

[SimonG]

No don't forget about it. This goes back to what I was saying earlier.. We need to hold a bit of pride protect our industry

if you let it pass you are part of the problem!

Had you of lost to another gsr then fair game but you haven't and this isn't on! People moan about current rates and this is why!!!

How can anyone say let it go, what if he kills someone maybe not this time or the next but these things can and do happen.
I AM UTTERLY GOB SMACKED that anyone would suggest letting it go. You all moan about membership fees and then not seeing people prosecuted.. WHAT you expect gas safe to just know someone is fitting illegally no they need to be informed.

and if he isn't being supervised whilst doing it he is breaking the law up until the point someone signs it off.

Get real. You must lead a sheltered life. I lose jobs to handymen and plastic fantastic installers who dont know what a bit of copper looks like. Not my problem. Good chance they would stuff it up, dont call me when they do.

As the op seen the quote from this bloke. Whos not to say that he will be working with a gsr or sub contract to a gsr all the gas bits.

Customers are economical with the truth, we all know that, maybe they were wanting the op to drop his price. Who knows, and frankly who gives a monkeys chuff.

Like i said, onwards and upwards, move on to the next job. The cust obviously wants cheap rather than quality, that sort of cust you can do without.

There are a nation of illegal installers out there, its not my job to police it. Thats why you waste, sorry, pay your money to gassafe.

 

[REDSAW]

it becomes illegal the moment he turns off the gas supply to dis the old boiler

 

[mackie1983]

Unless I physically see the gas fitter working on it its not 100%.

I could visit the house every day until I see a dodgy handy man on site and then report him, but I don't have the time to become MI5. I explained all the risks and if the customer does get the dodgy fitter in then its his risk.

 

[mackie1983]

Well put.

Get real. You must lead a sheltered life. I lose jobs to handymen and plastic fantastic installers who dont know what a bit of copper looks like. Not my problem. Good chance they would stuff it up, dont call me when they do.

As the op seen the quote from this bloke. Whos not to say that he will be working with a gsr or sub contract to a gsr all the gas bits.

Customers are economical with the truth, we all know that, maybe they were wanting the op to drop his price. Who knows, and frankly who gives a monkeys chuff.

Like i said, onwards and upwards, move on to the next job. The cust obviously wants cheap rather than quality, that sort of cust you can do without.

There are a nation of illegal installers out there, its not my job to police it. Thats why you waste, sorry, pay your money to gassafe.

 

[E4gas]

Just lost a job to an illegal Gas fitter, he's a handyman! Not even a plumber! He's apparently going to get his substandard installation signed off by a GSR Engineer though.

Why would any GSR Engineer go through all that training just to sign off some cowboys work!

He quoted £2000 for a full central heating install.

Rant over.........

how do you no he has got the job ,,

 

[mackie1983]

The customer informed me he has a handy man that he uses for rads and other wet jobs.

He has decided to go with his quote. Lets be clear i dont know 100% but i'm convinced enough.

When i posted this i was frustrated, it is fair to say i have know mellowed!

how do you no he has got the job ,,

 

[AlexGas]

What a beautiful morning!

A booby trap is a device or setup that is intended to kill, harm or surprise a person, unknowingly triggered by the presence or actions of the victim. As the word trap implies, they often have some form of bait designed to lure the victim towards it.

Can unvented system or a gas boiler installed illegally be a booby trap?

If the answer is YES and you know the illegal installer, would you let him/her to carry on putting innocent lives in danger?

If the answer is YES and you know the unreported illegal installer puts a combi in for a family with kids opposite your house and next thing you know they are all dead. Will you feel guilty at all?
What would it take us to report the illegal installers? A death of a friend or a relative…?

Hold on… Am I wasting my time here, typing the above… Shall we just let them run free?!

Just stand back! Or walk on the other side of the road! There could be a booby trap!

 

[armourer]

So when you carry out a service issue a cp12, you are taking responsibility that that installation is safe?
If it passes all the tests. How do you know it was installed by a fully qualified engineer?

The simple fact is if it is installed and signed off correctly and passes all tests.
It is a legal gas install.

It is common practice on new builds to have plumbers hang the boiler all radiators and pipework and a gas engineer comes in to connect the gas and commission. (what is the difference there from signing off someone else's work)?

Just playing devils advocate but I don't think gas safe will be interested.

 

[Ermintrude]

Agree an illegal cannot be doing a good job mainly because he's doing it illegally.

 

[armourer]

I think you missed my point SimonJohns. I was drunk when I wrote it but what I was trying to say is that if you attend a property and it passes all tests. How would you know it was installed by someone not qualified?

And rereading your post it seems we are making the same point.