Logistics / scheduling for bathrooms

[WaterTight]

Hoping you guys can offer me some pointers and answers.

I have done many of the individual bits of bathrooms a good few times, some only rarely. I've fitted an electric shower once but had nothing to do with allowing for cabling to be fitted or anything like that - they just wanted it put on wall and piped up. Whole bathrooms I've only done a few and found them a headache. And I've not done one where I've need to co-ordinate with a plaster / tiler / electrician before.

Just been to look at a small bathroom where the guy would like me to provide those tradesmen. I know a plasterer and through him I'm sure can find a tiler and spark but what I need to get straight in my head is the best order to do stuff... the planing of it. If it was my bathroom and I could pooter along doing it no part would stress me. It's just the idea of getting it all sorted in a professional, co-ordinated and timely fashion.

What would be your prefered order of work for this:

(I have highlighted the bits that especially confuse me)

Replace bath (arcylic out, steel in), basin (pedestal out, wall hung in, waste goes through floor), toilet (standard close-coupled out, back to wall in), small rad (with towel rad), install electric shower chasing feed down from loft into concrete wall (presumably chase chanel for cable too?), wall to ceiling tiled, floor tiled, plasterboard piece to be put on ceiling. The system is a combi.

I'm guessing it would be like this:

I come in first. Take off tiles.

Rip out toilet, basin, bath and rad.

Offer up electric shower and chase out channels in wall for shower feed and cabling. One big channel or two separate? Lined with anything? Use metal trunking for electric cable or foil for cable detection? Pipe protected with anything if copper / if plastic?

Run shower feed down chasing, from loft, fit isolation valve in loft, offer up tile between shower and wall to work out length of pipe tail to be left protruding for fitting shower after tiling? Is that how's it's best done?

Fit bath permanently as tiler will tile down onto bath.

Leave basin removed for tiler to tile wall.

Fit toilet so customers can use (but come back and remove before tiler arrives, say of a morning, re-fit at end of same day - but maybe not secured to wall incase tiles not dry enough)

Measure centres for rad and leave tails sticking out for tiler to tile round.

Arrange elctrician to come and run cable down trunking to where shower will be? Not sure when in the proceeding this should be done, presumbaly he could leave the cable sticking out safely capped off so he can connect it to shower when fitted after tiling is done?

Plasterer comes in and skims walls.

When dry (potentially several days?), tiler comes in and tiles walls and floors

Would the plasterer or tiler be the one you'd expect to fit new plasterboard sheet to ceiling?

Then I come back, properly fit toilet, towel rad and wall-hung basin.

Fit electric shower, pipe up. Arrange for spark to wire it up.

Finishing touches, silicone round bath etc..

Job done (?)

 

[stevetheplumber]

i usualy fit the pan and supply a bucket to flush it with if im in a good mood they get a stand pipe to fill the bucket

 

[Phil]

Don't forget Watertight if YOU supply the other trades (subcontract) then YOU are the one responsible for them on site, any problems the customer will come to you.

I do all my own plastering and tiling and have a spark to do the electrics, the more trades are involved the more mess and expense for customer.

I couldn't even imagine how I'd organise all those other trades.

 

[Destroyer2813]

Get your spark to drop the cable in your chase and just up into the loft not connected so leaves it safe for u and the tiler and leave your copper long dont try and get it spot on it will only be to short (sods law).

The plaster should board the ceiling for you not the tiler.

If the walls are plasterboard it should dry out pretty quick soild walls may take bit longer normally couple days

 

[Phil]

Regarding the electric shower I wouldn't bother putting a isolation valve in loft, I mean when I need to swap an electric shower I don't for one second think there will be isolation in the loft. You can fit one if you want though then you can adjust the pipe to suite once tiled.

Just run your pipe in the wall and let the electrician worry about his cable. You need to have a look in the electric shower to see the inlet connection whether its pushfit or if you need a comp fitting. What I do is basically what you said, just offer it up and solder an elbow on or just have say 3 inch of copper coming out ready to be cut down and a compression elbow putting on after tiling. Take into account the tile and adhesive.

 

[WaterTight]

Thanks for the advice everybody.

Just run your pipe in the wall and let the electrician worry about his cable.

Sounds reasonable actually - I wouldn't expect anyone to do my work for me. But since I'm chasing anyway should I make a channel big enough for cable trunking and pipe? Do they usually sit in the same chasing?

So basically the order sounds about right then?

Yeah I do imagine it might be tricky co-ordinating people. But if I plan my time well I guess I can just book them to fit in. They can deal with having no basin for a bit so I reckon as long as I chuck in and pipe up the bath and have the toilet usable (even with a bucket for flushing if need be) before cable running, plastering and tiling takes place then it wouldn't matter too much if that process takes half a week to get done..

So now the job would be finding some guys, getting them to pop along to have a look so they can give me a price, finding out their availability and coming up with a quote.

Piece of cake (shudders...)

 

[WaterTight]

Ah well it's all a learning process eh?

 

[AWheating]

why not put cable in from shower point to loft/pull cord point yourself, this will save you money and save the sparks an extra visit. Get a few meters of 10mm2 and some capping job done.

makes sure rad/shower pipes land on/near a grout line and it will make the tilers job easier and a better finish.

tiles stick better to plaster board than plaster, so if you have complete walls needing reboarding and they are fully tiled dont pay for it to be skimmed.

if the walls around bath need re boarding use a waterproof platerbaord of cement board.

is the floor being tiled?

 

[WaterTight]

All great advice, cheers AWHeating.

I'm not used to working out what condition walls need to be in for tiling. So are you saying that once you've take off old tiles and chipped off most of remaining adhesive - if the wall looks roughly ok no need to do anything, if it's missing chunks of plaster or looking in bad condition but going to be totally tiled anyway then put up plasterboard rather than get it skimmed? i.e. only get it skimmed if parts of the wall are both in bad condition and not going to be tiled?

Like the tips about pipes near grout line. Never would have thought of that.

Floor is to be tiled yeah. I'm guessing it gets tiled up to bath and then you fit the panel and cut it to allow for tiles rather than they tile up to panel? Although I've seen both ways done.

Also he wants a steel bath. Are they liftable by one man upstairs? No idea how heavy they are. I'm plenty strong, regular weightlifter - just not Mr T.

 

[justlead1]

If the hot water is via a combi why the electric shower?<br>With the basin, Why not fit it with say flex connections and let the tiler unscrew the fixings drop a couple of tiles in and refit, or stick a bit of packing / tile in back centre of basin, giving the opportunity to slide tiles behind where nessasary . When courting other trade you will spend hours longer.&nbsp;

 

[WaterTight]

Cheers justlead. He wants one incase of boiler probs. Good idea with the basin. Seems like the real key is to work around others as little as humanly possible.

 

[dontknowitall]

The way I work is (assuming change of bath, basin, WC and shower over bath):

(Days are approximate!)

Day 1 - rip out
Knock tiles off wall over bath when it's in place - keeps mess down!
Turn off water, stop ends/isolating valves on pipes and turn on water for rest of house asap.
Remove old suite.
This process usually takes 1/2 day but if wallpaper to be removed could take rest of the day.
Good clean up, removing floorboards if necessary for pipework alterations.

Day 2
Repair walls if necessary and paint ceiling if required
New pipework and ensure I've all plumbing fittings - if not buy that evening or next morning before day starts
Electrician/plasterer as required (so painting would be next day)

Day 3
Floor

Day 4
Fit shower pipework to wall
Fit bath

Day 5-6
Tiling, woodwork

Day 7
Fit basin and WC and clean up room

My estimate would be for 8 (maybe 10) days. I never quote as it's only when you remove tiles and other stuff that you really know what you're facing.


Not saying this is the best way for things to be done, but it's what works for me.

 

[Phil]

Regarding the state of the walls for the tiler, some are more picky than others. The walls have to be reasonably flat with no loose plaster or old adhesive everywhere.

If the floor is to be tiled he will need to address any deflection (bounce) and put noggins in if needed, most tilers now will only tile on Hardiebacker/no more ply or similar as tiling on ply is frouned upon these days. This will affect the bath panel height but with it being a steel bath its probably not a P shaped bath which you really don't want to cut the bottom off if you can help it.

He may just overboard with Hardiebacker but if he's dodgy he might think he can tile onto 6mm ply or even straight onto chipboard if he really wants trouble later on. If he uses cement boards make sure he lays them on flexible adhesive and tapes the joins as well as screwing them down.

 

[Guest123]

I bought a couple of cheap chemical loos from a local caravan dealer. Easier and less mess than flushing out with buckets. Also don't have to worry about stopping early to put a loo in temporary until next day.

 

[AWheating]

All great advice, cheers AWHeating.


Also he wants a steel bath. Are they liftable by one man upstairs? No idea how heavy they are. I'm plenty strong, regular weightlifter - just not Mr T.

steel baths are quite light really, one man lift no problems. what you will find is they dont have very good leg adjustment and fixing positions so you will be best to have some timber battons around the back and sides (and maybe under legs) for support and plenty of sealant.

best to have tiles going under bath and bath panel sat ontop, gives a cleaner finish and makes removal of bath panel alot easier, fit a timber batton on the floor to tile to and high enough to be able to secure bath panel to later.

 

[kay-jay]

i would leave original toilet in til all else is done. just put it on a long flexible feed and long flexi waste so it provides access to rear, do this during the initial rip-out. i do this so there is no chance of accidental damage or tile adhesive or any other crap buggering up the new w/c.

i would probably go with a decent thermo shower rather than leccy.