Incorrect falls on flue classification

[gmac]

I'm sure we've all came accross the issue falls on flue systems not meeting m.i's, it's become a matter of great debate in a few apartment blocks i've been working in recently, especially when it comes to clasifying ncs or ar, personally my view is ar along with a few others then some say ncs, whats your views??

 

[nysk2008]

me personally, if the appliance is safe and operating how it should I would ncs a flue with an incorrect fall.

 

[Ermintrude]

What's fall are u deeming to be an issue? Falling away or level - agree but anything over 5d is fine as vertical is fine

 

[gmac]

One scenario is on a baxi duotec with standard 80/125, some running about 10-15m with little or no falll, incorrectly clipped, no securing screws, installed approx 5-6 years, (required fall of 26mm per m - according to baxi technical)

Second scenario on ferroli 80mm twin plastic flues, running level at best, incorrectly clipped

Third is ferroli 80mm alu twin flue, again running level at best and incorrectly clipped again.
Ferroli stating 55mm per m fall back to boiler

All above horizontal flue systems

 

[Ermintrude]

AR All day

 

[gmac]

I fully agree, the situations above are all located with-in apartment blocks and management companys and agents argueing that I've been the first and only one to raise the issue, its a scary thought especially the alu flue with the condense only able to lie within the flue system,

 

[Mike Jackson]

Incorrectly clipped is AR without looking at incorrect falls.

 

[Reg Man]

Gas Safe TB001 IUSSP and TB008 flues in voids. Its a bit of a read but very helpful.

 

[JamesyGoosey1]

I once rang gas safe about what to classify this as and to quote them if the condensate trap is dry it's id if the trap has water in its ar!

 

[Reg Man]

I once rang gas safe about what to classify this as and to quote them if the condensate trap is dry it's id if the trap has water in its ar!

That is not strictly true is it? If its leaking products of combustion into the room from the condensate its ID if it is not but could have the potential to do so then its AR.

 

[AWheating]

I fully agree, the situations above are all located with-in apartment blocks and management companys and agents argueing that I've been the first and only one to raise the issue, its a scary thought especially the alu flue with the condense only able to lie within the flue system,

so the management companys upset with you, not the idiots who have fitted the things and the idiots who have not spotted the incorrectly fitted flue on service. thats about right

 

[JamesyGoosey1]

Don't shoot the messenger reg man just telling you what I was told when I spoke to the powers that be!

 

[Reg Man]

Don't shoot the messenger reg man just telling you what I was told when I spoke to the powers that be!

No I was agreeing with you and disputing what gas safe were alleged to have said.

 

[gmac]

so the management companys upset with you, not the idiots who have fitted the things and the idiots who have not spotted the incorrectly fitted flue on service. thats about right

On one of the apartment blocks they came back saying it was passed last year by someone else and looking a reassessment and to classify it as NSC as they spoke to other engineers who were willing to issue cert stating flue NSC, when I refused they refused to pay and proceeded to get it signed off by someone else,

Another question, should I be reporting this to the hse??

 

[Ermintrude]

Yes riddor the whole block.

 

[gmac]

Incorrectly clipped is AR without looking at incorrect falls.

I thought no clips was ar, clipped but incorrectly and flue sound and no signs of spillage was NSC,

 

[Reg Man]

On one of the apartment blocks they came back saying it was passed last year by someone else and looking a reassessment and to classify it as NSC as they spoke to other engineers who were willing to issue cert stating flue NSC, when I refused they refused to pay and proceeded to get it signed off by someone else,

Another question, should I be reporting this to the hse??

Yes definitely if the HSE and tech bulletin 008 and 001 were no followed.

 

[GrahamM]

I thought no clips was ar, clipped but incorrectly and flue sound and no signs of spillage was NSC,

Down to your Engineering judgment in conjunction with MI's.
In general I would be looking for flue to be supported at every joint along its length.
If you believe flue is inadequately supported and at risk of moving and dislodging a joint then its AR.
If has some support and you deem it secure enough then NCS.

 

[mutley racers]

Down to your Engineering judgment in conjunction with MI's.
In general I would be looking for flue to be supported at every joint along its length.
If you believe flue is inadequately supported and at risk of moving and dislodging a joint then its AR.
If has some support and you deem it secure enough then NCS.

Wgen you say every joint, would you put a clip either side of the joint then if you know what I mean?

 

[Ermintrude]

No just one clip on boiler side of joint. Also use pan head self tappers to fix flue pipes together

 

[stevetheplumber]

No just one clip on boiler side of joint. Also use pan head self tappers to fix flue pipes together

debatable if you should screw flues that dont come with screws as your now modifying the flue from manufacturers design

 

[Ermintrude]

Baxi and valliant mostly .i would rather be in a court defending using screws apposed to a few dead people. Positive fix.

 

[mutley racers]

No just one clip on boiler side of joint. Also use pan head self tappers to fix flue pipes together

That makes sense

 

[Ermintrude]

That makes sense

As always , legible coherent and factually correct posts!