Advice on heating in a new build property

[ShaunCorbs]

Ive done that already if you look at the spreadsheet picture I posted a few posts up it’s all on there. Mr combi app doesn’t list all the rooms that the Stelrad one does so not sure when choosing kitchen/dinner, wc, ensuites and landing areas

so which one your struggling on ?

 

[slacky]

Downstairs wc, kitchen/diner, both ensuites and 1st and 2nd landing areas. The Stelrad didn’t have an option for ensuites but it covered everything else

 

[king of pipes]

Slacky this post has gone on for quite somtime now and i think the conclusion is your boiler and rads are undersized the only way to improve your situation is get a decent engineer in to upsize some of the radiators this may help but you may also find the boiler may also need looking at , it should not happen in a new build property but in reality it often does as the developers squeeze the heating contractor on price , you will carry on going round in circles getting nowhere and before you know it another 6 weeks will have gone by sit down write a list of things your not happy about and address each point . Regards kop

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Downstairs wc, kitchen/diner, both ensuites and 1st and 2nd landing areas. The Stelrad didn’t have an option for ensuites but it covered everything else

bathroom for wc
Kitchen / diner both are in the mr combi app
Landing use entrance / halls

 

[slacky]

I know it’s gone on far to long that’s why I’m trying to get right size btu for each room so I’ve got abit of evidence that what they’ve installed isn’t good enough. There’s a lot of contrasting information on the internet regarding the btu needed for different rooms that’s why I’ve asked here as you guy do it day in day out I thought you would be the best people to advise. I don’t see why I should be paying anything to get the rads upgraded or boiler looked at when I’m paying a lot of money for the house
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I take it when it asked for external wall I put the lengths of both walls added together? And ensuites as bathrooms?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I know it’s gone on far to long that’s why I’m trying to get right size btu for each room so I’ve got abit of evidence that what they’ve installed isn’t good enough. There’s a lot of contrasting information on the internet regarding the btu needed for different rooms that’s why I’ve asked here as you guy do it day in day out I thought you would be the best people to advise. I don’t see why I should be paying anything to get the rads upgraded or boiler looked at when I’m paying a lot of money for the house
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I take it when it asked for external wall I put the lengths of both walls added together? And ensuites as bathrooms?

correct total outside wall length and correct

 

[slacky]

And flow and return I’ve put 80 65?

 

[centralheatking]

I know it’s gone on far to long that’s why I’m trying to get right size btu for each room so I’ve got abit of evidence that what they’ve installed isn’t good enough. There’s a lot of contrasting information on the internet regarding the btu needed for different rooms that’s why I’ve asked here as you guy do it day in day out I thought you would be the best people to advise. I don’t see why I should be paying anything to get the rads upgraded or boiler looked at when I’m paying a lot of money for the house
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I take it when it asked for external wall I put the lengths of both walls added together? And ensuites as bathrooms?

Let us know how you get on with your builder when you present an expert report by a qualified heating engineer. Centralheatking

 

[ShaunCorbs]

And flow and return I’ve put 80 65?

doesn’t really matter but for condensing 65max then 50 for return

 

[slacky]

Let us know how you get on with your builder when you present an expert report by a qualified heating engineer. Centralheatking

no problem i get the hint i wont ask for any advice any more

doesn’t really matter but for condensing 65max then 50 for return

just did all the rooms using mr combi app again very different results compared to both stelrad and plumbnation. Thanks for the help

 

[king of pipes]

I totally agree with you but if the developers wont sort the issue out and you are getting fobbed off what are you going to do ? Post some pictures of rads fitted often its a simple job to swap a single panel rad for a double panel or double panel plus surley its worth considering in the rooms which are inhabited the most if it solves the issue you can the chase the developer for the costs . Regards kop

 

[naylorpd]

I've browsed this because I also have a newbuild house in the UK and am underwhelmed by the heating system and the quality of work in the installation.

One problem I had is that the downstairs thermostat is in the hall which is quite a small, enclosed space, but the kitchen is large and has a flat roof. So the hall comes up to temp, the thermostat switches off and the kitchen is still freezing. I then put in a Hive system and the thermostat is now removable from the wall, so I put it in the kitchen. This also meant that I then needed a TRV on the rad in the hall. But I still have one rad that consistently refuses to come on and know the problem is not the TRV.

One very specific tip I would give - the developer has probably given you a two year warranty on the house including appliances, before the NHBC clicks in. Here is the BUT...the heating system including boiler, hot water tank etc. needs an annual service by a heating engineer approved by the manufacturer. If you do not do this service, the developer will wriggle out of the warranty on the whole system in the second year.

Secondly I'd back up other comments, don't try to fix everything yourself, the developer has given a warranty and must fulfil that. Do not be afraid to call them back again and again, especially (but not only) if they are still on site, because at the end of 2 years they will walk away. Then you really will have to sort it out yourself. Of course the big problem is that the developer has subbed everything out, including the warranty repairs.

 

[MattyR]

Have you checked the system pressure?

 

[Frelon]

Some background info that may help!

I bought a new build five years ago with an Ideal Logic HEAT 15 system boiler installed (3 bed semi). Ours was one of the last built on the development (Charles Church) and we found the builders/plumbers were cutting costs on the later builds by not installing immersion heaters (the leccies had put the wiring in) and using single panel radiators instead of the nice double panel radiators that were in the show house (the builders said that they were out of stock and had an 8 week backlog!). I have subsequently changed the two radiators in the sitting room to double panels.

I control heating and hot water using a Nest thermostat, my water heating is on for two hours per day (07:30 - 08:30, 17:00 - 18:00) and that gives us plenty of hot water.

I have the boiler serviced annually by the local company that installed the system.........and am pleased to report that the Logic HEAT 15 has been fault free, the only replacement needed was a Zilmet expansion vessel after water was seen coming out of the tundish.

Being a new build insulation is superb, windows are plastic double glazed, no draughts anywhere! In fact Mrs Frelon is very happy with our heat control and is even able to change the temperature using Nest on her iPhone!

Good luck to the OP, sounds as though the Plumbers Forum team are pointing you in the right direction.

 

[naylorpd]

@Frelon Interesting that heating installers were allowed to cut corners, because I thought that Charles Church was at the top end of property developers.

 

[slacky]

Thanks for the reply’s guys. I’ve lived in a new build before although a few years ago now and the heating in there was bang on.

I emailed ideal over the weekend and explained the situation to see if they could give some possible causes of the gas usage. They was insistent on sending one of their engineers out to check the boiler over. He came today checked the boiler and all is working fine. He had a look on the cyclinder cupboard and noticed the hot water valve is stuck open. Could this be the problem ?

ive reported it to the plumbers but they want to send an engineer out to check for themselves

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Thanks for the reply’s guys. I’ve lived in a new build before although a few years ago now and the heating in there was bang on.

I emailed ideal over the weekend and explained the situation to see if they could give some possible causes of the gas usage. They was insistent on sending one of their engineers out to check the boiler over. He came today checked the boiler and all is working fine. He had a look on the cyclinder cupboard and noticed the hot water valve is stuck open. Could this be the problem ?

ive reported it to the plumbers but they want to send an engineer out to check for themselves

Yeah as it'll be sailing round the HW, basically acting as a big bypass. And considering your HW cylinder coil will be 15kw it'll be using the majority of the heat put in by the boiler and putting little into the heating. Had the same on a system today, i've rewired it so it'll do HW Priority - although that wouldn't get away from a stuck valve but enables the system to reheat the cylinder quickly and then put 100% heat input into the heating circuits once that's done.

 

[slacky]

Is there any way close the valve manually? The plumbers aren’t coming out till Thursday and then if it is faulty itll be another week or 2 till the parts arrive

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

What make of valve is it? (picture might help) I'm surprised your HW isn't scalding if it's stuck open!

 

[slacky]

It’s a Honeywell 272848. I’ve just ran the hot tap to see how hot it gets and it’s piping hot. Just shows how much I run the hot tap apart from having a shower

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

It’s a Honeywell 272848. I’ve just ran the hot tap to see how hot it gets and it’s piping hot. Just shows how much I run the hot tap apart from having a shower

Without taking the lid off the top there's probably not a lot you can do, depends if you are handy with a screwdriver or not! Make sure you isolate all the power if you do decide to.

Funnily enough i've been having a few issues with Honeywell valves sticking over the past 12 months, makes me wonder if they've had a faulty batch....

 

[ShaunCorbs]

is the lever free or in here

 

[slacky]

I’m an electrician by trade but have limited experience with heating systems normally just do commercial work

here’s a picture

 

[ShaunCorbs]

no not locked open when you push the lever (part thats sticking up) is it easy or can you feel resistance

 

[slacky]

Can feel abit of resistance if I push it over to
Manual it’s moves itself back to auto

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Can feel abit of resistance if I push it over to
Manual it’s moves itself back to auto

It ain't stuck open then....

 

[slacky]

Dam I take it it’s working as it should then? The boiler bloke said the outgoing from the valve to the boiler is piping hot but it shouldn’t be as it’s not heating the water

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Dam I take it it’s working as it should then? The boiler bloke said the outgoing from the valve to the boiler is piping hot but it shouldn’t be as it’s not heating the water

Could be wired up incorrectly? Is valve opening when it shouldn't be i.e. when heating is on and water is off.

 

[slacky]

Is there any way to tell if it’s opening other than sitting next to it listening ? I’ve turned the hot water off going to see if it runs out over the next day or so if it does then the valves got to be working right

it’s got to be wired up right when we first moved in we had the hot water on for a couple of hours in the morning on some nights we used to run out of hot water

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Feel below the port valve should be cold / the same temp as your hot water

 

[slacky]

I’ve left the hot water turned off for a day or so and I’ve ran out of hot water. Felt the pipe work just under the valve and it’s cold but I noticed when I’ve got the heating on and hot water set to be on constant the pipe work was very hot to touch. Not sure if the valves constantly open when the hot water is set to on. Should it close when the cylinder stat says it’s upto to temp?

ive bite the bullet and purchasd some k2s for the hallway, first floor landing and both bedrooms that are quite cold. I’m going to balance the system to make sure it’s all heating up at the same time. What’s the best digital thermometer to do this?

 

[king of pipes]

Yes that is how it works i would say it working correctly, is there a auto bypass on the boiler pipework ? a few pictures would help us advise you further normally double panels downstairs , sinlges upstairs but you need to be able to achieve a comfortable temperature . Kop