Advice on heating in a new build property

[slacky]

All radiators apart from 2 are k1’s and the other 2 are k2’s I’ve been round all of them and took the measurements then got the kw per radiator from the stelrads website which adds up to 8.7kw

 

[centralheatking]

All radiators apart from 2 are k1’s and the other 2 are k2’s I’ve been round all of them and took the measurements then got the kw per radiator from the stelrads website which adds up to 8.7kw

I have installed loads of heating systems since 1980 until a few years ago but because of my business in plumbing and heating keep up or even ahead. Do not be fooled its a case of emporers clothes the system looks good maybe just meets modern regs etc. in reality my last gaff had 30kw over 3 floors and 14 or so rads and guess what I could turn it down ! wait till we get a real cold blast. get some more kw in or buy some electric convection heaters when they are cheap after Easter. centralheatking

 

[king of pipes]

Sorry Slacky but as CH KING has said you havent got enough kw . Kop

 

[slacky]

Do you mean the rads aren’t big enough for room sizes ? If I’m honest I did do a couple of btu calculations on a web site with a couple of rooms sizes and it did say they was big enough not by a lot though

 

[king of pipes]

You cannot raise the tempreture in the property to a comfortable level even after hours of running the system the boilers to small in my opinion, the rads may well be just about adequate but only if you can get enough heat into them which you are struggling to achieve . Kop
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Isolate 50% of the radiators and see if you can get the downstairs up to temperature. ?

 

[gmartine]

Just what I was going to say, on a cold day turn off/down one of your zones and see if the remaining zone gets up to temp then do then do the opposite and see if the other zone gets up to temp. If both zones get up to temp individually but not together you have your answer, I'd also check when your cylinder is calling for heat.

 

[slacky]

hey guys

6 weeks later and im still in the same situation. Had the insulation people out to check all insulation which is ok. Ive worked out the maximum gas the boiler can run on my current gas rate is 71p per hour. Over the last week or so ive been writing down every hour how much gas has been used. It ranges from 40-70p every hour even when the house is upto temperature. Even though the stats turn off it doesnt take long before their kicking back in again. During the heating times the boiler doesnt really get a break.

Ive emailed ideal technical explaining the situation hoping they might shed some light on the possible causes. I think one of the causes could be the size of the rads in the hallway and both landings. Am i right in thinking when measuring the hallway you measure the stairs as if they wasnt there ? The hallway is 5m long and 1m wide with an external front door according to the stelrad website should need a btu of 2568. Then the stair space measures 1.8m by 1m with 1 external wall and again on the stelrad website it says it needs a btu of 925 which together equals 3493. The rad in there is a stelrad k1 600 x 500 which gives out 1575 btu. This is the same on the first and second landing

Ive measured the bedrooms and the size of the rads in there they seem right but only just they seem to have put bare minumum in there

Any help would be appreciated

 

[centralheatking]

hey guys

6 weeks later and im still in the same situation. Had the insulation people out to check all insulation which is ok. Ive worked out the maximum gas the boiler can run on my current gas rate is 71p per hour. Over the last week or so ive been writing down every hour how much gas has been used. It ranges from 40-70p every hour even when the house is upto temperature. Even though the stats turn off it doesnt take long before their kicking back in again. During the heating times the boiler doesnt really get a break.

Ive emailed ideal technical explaining the situation hoping they might shed some light on the possible causes. I think one of the causes could be the size of the rads in the hallway and both landings. Am i right in thinking when measuring the hallway you measure the stairs as if they wasnt there ? The hallway is 5m long and 1m wide with an external front door according to the stelrad website should need a btu of 2568. Then the stair space measures 1.8m by 1m with 1 external wall and again on the stelrad website it says it needs a btu of 925 which together equals 3493. The rad in there is a stelrad k1 600 x 500 which gives out 1575 btu. This is the same on the first and second landing

Ive measured the bedrooms and the size of the rads in there they seem right but only just they seem to have put bare minumum in there

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks for keeping us informed, this might be the right time for you to re summarise your position as not everbody will have time to read it all from the beginning . My take on your problem is this
1. New build 2. Bare minimum heating system which does not reach your quite reasonable expectations 3 Total kw rad output 8kw. 4 boiler rarely modulates just races on to keep up
Question ..what is the boiler and it’s output in Kw Centralheatking

 

[slacky]

Thanks for keeping us informed, this might be the right time for you to re summarise your position as not everbody will have time to read it all from the beginning . My take on your problem is this
1. New build 2. Bare minimum heating system which does not reach your quite reasonable expectations 3 Total kw rad output 8kw. 4 boiler rarely modulates just races on to keep up
Question ..what is the boiler and it’s output in Kw Centralheatking

Thanks for the reply

The boiler is an ideal logic heat 15kw

ive been asking the plumbing company for the spec of rads boiler etc thats been requested from the builders but they ignored me and also asked the builders which he said hes laptops playing up which is a coincidence but hes ment to be coming round next week to go through it with me. Where do i stand with them putting bare minimum in which clearly isnt working?

ive also noticed pipes knockng in places when there cooling down. Whats the cause of this?

 

[Scott_D]

have your neighbours got the same setup and issues?

 

[slacky]

i havent asked them directly but i checked their meter every day same time for a week to see what they was using (naughty i know) they was using roughly £1.80-2 on the rate im on. Although there house is a 2 storey one and mines slightly bigger i cant see me using twice as much as them. Theres still 5 people living there all seem to be home at different times during the day and when i get home from work between 4-5 theres steam coming from their flu so heating must be on

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Insulation might be OK but have you not considered draughts? Draughts will cause your house to cool down much quicker than no insulation.... Poorly fitted doors/windows, seals not fitting correctly, loft hatches not sealing, extractor fan back draughts not working etc.

 

[centralheatking]

Thanks for the reply

The boiler is an ideal logic heat 15kw

ive been asking the plumbing company for the spec of rads boiler etc thats been requested from the builders but they ignored me and also asked the builders which he said hes laptops playing up which is a coincidence but hes ment to be coming round next week to go through it with me. Where do i stand with them putting bare minimum in which clearly isnt working?

ive also noticed pipes knockng in places when there cooling down. Whats the cause of this?

15kw is a joke for your property 2x that in my opinion Chking

 

[slacky]

the house was air tested for draughts etc not sure if this means anything? when the heatings off the house takes a while to cool down say its 22 degrees when the heating turns off itll only go down a degree or so over the next 1-2 hours. from experience from previous houses when the stats reach temperature they keep raising to a degree or so higher as the rads keep giving abit of heat out but this doesnt seem to happen in this house itll get to 21-21.5 degrees then turn off thinking itll keep rising but it doesnt casuing it to come back on a few minutes later

how would you determine what size boiler is required?

 

[Scott_D]

Do you have an unvented cylinder?
Do you time the hot water in times?
Do you use lots of hot water?

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

the house was air tested for draughts etc not sure if this means anything? when the heatings off the house takes a while to cool down say its 22 degrees when the heating turns off itll only go down a degree or so over the next 1-2 hours. from experience from previous houses when the stats reach temperature they keep raising to a degree or so higher as the rads keep giving abit of heat out but this doesnt seem to happen in this house itll get to 21-21.5 degrees then turn off thinking itll keep rising but it doesnt casuing it to come back on a few minutes later

how would you determine what size boiler is required?

Your stats will come on and off as they’ll be TPI stats. They’ll work out how quickly a room cools down then come back on before the temperature decreases to maintain the room at that temp.
As Scottd says have you got the HW on at the same time? Ensure that is timed to come on outside the heating is on.

 

[slacky]

Do you have an unvented cylinder?
Do you time the hot water in times?
Do you use lots of hot water?

not sure if its unveneted or not. no the hot waters on constant as this was the advice from the plumber who came to fix a leak. he said its best to have it that way then you only heat up what you use rather than the whole tank. I wouldnt say we use loads of hot water. I have a shower every night. Misses has a bath probably 3 nights a week then shower the other nights and kids a bath every other night

 

[Scott_D]

Try timing the hot water for a week.
check the stat is at 60.
Check you don’t have water Dripping at the tundish.

 

[slacky]

Try timing the hot water for a week.
check the stat is at 60.
Check you don’t have water Dripping at the tundish.

just checked the stat and its slightly higher than the pre set point i think some one told me to change this in the past. What times would you recommend having the hot water on so it doesnt interfere with the heating? we generally use 90% of hot water between 6-9. The heatings set to come on 5:30-7:30 in the morning and 4:30-9 at night.

i checked the tundish and its seems dry

 

[Scott_D]

Is the boiler temp higher than the cylinder stat temp?

 

[slacky]

The boilers set at 80
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Can any one recommend a btu calculator they trust and is accurate? I’ve been on the Stelrad and Plumbnation calculators but both give very different results

 

[centralheatking]

The boilers set at 80
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Can any one recommend a btu calculator they trust and is accurate? I’ve been on the Stelrad and Plumbnation calculators but both give very different results

BES list the Mears Calculator which we always used. Centralheatking

 

[slacky]

Just had a look at the mears calculator it looks quite complicated. I’ve wrote down all the measurements of the rooms from the floor plan of the house along with all the rads and btu outputs per room I just need a reliable calculator to work out what btu is needed

 

[centralheatking]

Just had a look at the mears calculator it looks quite complicated. I’ve wrote down all the measurements of the rooms from the floor plan of the house along with all the rads and btu outputs per room I just need a reliable calculator to work out what btu is needed

You will need to include outside walls, ceiling heights, windows and type as well. That’s why a mears calculator is the bees knees. Centralheatking

 

[slacky]

I’ve put all that in on both Stelrad and plumbnation calculators but get very different results

 

[Scott_D]

I’ve put all that in on both Stelrad and plumbnation calculators but get very different results

Do your radiator outputs get close to the lower figure?

 

[centralheatking]

I’ve put all that in on both Stelrad and plumbnation calculators but get very different results

I have just put new heating system into one of my let’s so I know it’s adequate so did the sitting room on both the calculators you mention. The Plumbnation one is rubbish way too low, the stelrad is nearer the mark . I can use btu or kw but kw is easier to understand as it translates into 1 bar electric fires as a comparison. The stelrad one came up with 2.2kw I put in 3kw as I can always turn it down, always put in enough heat for very cold xmas day when the kids are up early and running around in pyjamas. That gaff has 3 bedrooms two bathrooms two reception ..kick space in kitchen rarely used.8 rads and 24 kw combi is just dandy. House comes up to heat real fast boiler rarely run above half unless it’s real cold. Centralheatking

 

[slacky]

just redone each room on the stelrad website which gave a few different results and then done the same on plumbnation but they havent got as many room types so just did what i could. Could you cast your eyes over it see if there about right before i show the builders

 

[Scott_D]

I have just put new heating system into one of my let’s so I know it’s adequate so did the sitting room on both the calculators you mention. The Plumbnation one is rubbish way too low, the stelrad is nearer the mark . I can use btu or kw but kw is easier to understand as it translates into 1 bar electric fires as a comparison. The stelrad one came up with 2.2kw I put in 3kw as I can always turn it down, always put in enough heat for very cold xmas day when the kids are up early and running around in pyjamas. That gaff has 3 bedrooms two bathrooms two reception ..kick space in kitchen rarely used.8 rads and 24 kw combi is just dandy. House comes up to heat real fast boiler rarely run above half unless it’s real cold. Centralheatking

2 bathrooms and a 24kw combi ?????

 

[centralheatking]

2 bathrooms and a 24kw combi ?????

One is just a bog and basin. Lecky shower as well. Deck mixer on the bath

 

[Scott_D]

One is just a bog and basin

Typical landlord job then

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Mr combi one isnt far off a mears Calc and the one I use for mine

but don’t be surprised as it’s a new build they’ve just shoved a heat pack in x amount of rads and no heatloss calcs done hence them not wanting to talk / send you there’s

bring your boiler temp down to around 65dc

 

[slacky]

Just downloaded the mr combi app (think that’s the right one) put in a few rooms I think I’ve done it right and the figures are coming back higher than both Stelrad and plumbnation results

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Just downloaded the mr combi app (think that’s the right one) put in a few rooms I think I’ve done it right and the figures are coming back higher than both Stelrad and plumbnation results

thats the ones I would work off then

now find the manufacturer of your rads and look up the outputs

 

[slacky]

Ive done that already if you look at the spreadsheet picture I posted a few posts up it’s all on there. Mr combi app doesn’t list all the rooms that the Stelrad one does so not sure when choosing kitchen/dinner, wc, ensuites and landing areas