Moving Earthenware Waste in Concrete

[blawford]

So judging by the other thread I started I'm going to struggle to connect a new toilet with my waste pipe hole being so far from the wall (about 30-35cm to be precise). I am therefore thinking about the logistics of moving the opening.

As the title suggests, it is a ceramic/clay/earthenware (not sure what the right term is) in a concrete floor. The tools I have at my immediate disposal are a angle grinder with diamond blade, a few chisels and hammers, drills (non SDS) and masonry bits.

I assume the aim is to get access to the pipe, cut it off clean and then fit a 'Flexible Pipe Coupling' (can't post a URL) to attach a new PVC pipe to?

Few questions, how delicate is the pipe and how do I go about this job without breaking it? Can I do this job with the tools I currently have available or should I be buying/hiring something? How long is this job likely to take me roughly?

Thanks.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I didn't mean to come across as if I was complaining about the lack of replies, just more amused that I was just posting a running commentary on the removal of a bathroom soil pipe. Hopefully someone will come across this in the future and the detail will help them.

Went and tidied up the end of the pipe a bit before I saw your post and thankfully I managed not to wreck anything, would have been massively annoyed if I had though considering it wasn't required.

Now I just need to figure out what I need to buy and go somewhere to buy it.

Measure the dia of the pipe and either go to a builder merchant or have a look on the Internet for a fernco coupling from dia of your pipe to 4"

 

[joni os]

Excellent job, coupling will seal as it is, but the square cut would be even better. Rub circumference of cut external and internal with piece of broken concrete to remove sharp edges. This will help coupling slide on pipe, external, and lessen chance of waste build up at joint, internal. Most important, old and new pipework adequately supported. I would use weak concrete mix. Some building inspectors might prefer pea shingle. Whatever you use pack it well round the pipe.

 

[blawford]

Bit of an hard question to answer I would imagine but what is the best way to work out what combination of bits I need in terms of angles and straight bits of UPVC pipework after the coupling?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Bit of an hard question to answer I would imagine but what is the best way to work out what combination of bits I need in terms of angles and straight bits of UPVC pipework after the coupling?

Yes one straight bit how ever far you want to push it back/ toilet (but they might only sell a length ) and a 4" elbow

And then for above ground you will require a 4" bent pan connector

 

[rpm]

Small point, is there a recommended torque for tightening the bands when fitting the Fernco coupling?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Small point, is there a recommended torque for the bands when fitting the Fernco coupling?

Yes normally stated on the coupling

 

[blawford]

Small point, is there a recommended torque for tightening the bands when fitting the Fernco coupling?

That was going to be one of my next questions. Not owning a torque wrench is there a way to do this without buying one? I love to buy a new tool but this seems a bit excessive for one use. Although I obviously don't want to crack the pipe at this point!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

That was going to be one of my next questions. Not owning a torque wrench is there a way to do this without buying one? I love to buy a new tool but this seems a bit excessive for one use. Although I obviously don't want to crack the pipe at this point!

Ft will do (tight tight)

 

[joni os]

If moving connection at rightangle to run of pipe you will need a medium radius 90 bend, which can be rotated towards wall and a 15 or 30 bend to bring pipe square with floor, depends on depth of existing and required distance off wall. Short length of 110 straight pipe, pan connector and your stepped clay to PVC coupling.

 

[rpm]

That was going to be one of my next questions. Not owning a torque wrench is there a way to do this without buying one? I love to buy a new tool but this seems a bit excessive for one use. Although I obviously don't want to crack the pipe at this point!

I`ve only ever used the small 40-50mm ones where the worm head can be tightned with a screwdriver or a socket, the socket and a ratchet will give a greater torque.

 

[joni os]

Tighten with !/4" drive socket set, you will know when it feels tight. Don't over tighten and strip worm thread. Arrange bands on coupling to aid access for tightening.

 

[blawford]

Just looking at pipe. Screwfix and Wickes are the closest places to me and Screwfix is a couple of quid per joint more expensive than Wickes, but Screwfix is FlowPlast branded stuff vs Wickes own brand. Should I spend the extra?

 

[joni os]

Just looking at pipe. Screwfix and Wickes are the closest places to me and Screwfix is a couple of quid per joint more expensive than Wickes, but Screwfix is FlowPlast branded stuff vs Wickes own brand. Should I spend the extra?

If near a Toolstation they will be even better and no problem returning unused fittings.

 

[blawford]

Had a look at Toolstation but they don't have the rubber coupling in stock and I don't really want to go to more than 1 place.

So a length of pipe connected to the rubber coupling then an elbow on the end to bring it out vertically at ground level. Would this be suitable as that elbow to sort out the angle I am left with (assuming it isn't something standard, which it almost certainly wont be).

Do I want the end up with the end joint almost flush with the floor?

 

[joni os]

The end joint is best flush with the floor and if it happens to be a collar insert 80mm of straight pipe, for pan connector to seal. Still unsure as to which wall you will be placing toilet against, assume it is one running parallel to pipe.

 

[blawford]

Just finalising what I am going to buy. Can I just check, the pipe that the toilet connects to should ideally be flush pipe (so a single socket rather than a double)?

 

[oz-plumber]

You probably don't want a socket at all.
The pan connector should fit inside the pipe.

What you need is an earthenware to PVC adaptor ( we call them Plumbquicks)
1 x 88 degree bend.
1.5 metres of pipe.
You may require a 15 degree bend if the horizontal drain does not line up with the location n of the new pan.

You will also require concrete to go under the bend where the pipe goes vertical.
You may also want some foam to wrap around the pipe where it goes through the existing slab - not sure if you guys do that?

You will also require some screenings to cover the pipe to the level of the concrete slab, you don't want to encase the whole pipe in concrete.

Hopefully you can decipher what I mean

 

[blawford]

Sacked it off early on Sunday to watch the football, shouldn't have bothered as it was a terrible game! 90% of the way there but it isn't quite coming out at the right angle.

In addition to the photo I have a 15 degree joint that I think might correct the angle, can I connect the 15 and 45 degree joints together?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Sacked it off early on Sunday to watch the football, shouldn't have bothered as it was a terrible game! 90% of the way there but it isn't quite coming out at the right angle.

In addition to the photo I have a 15 degree joint that I think might correct the angle, can I connect the 15 and 45 degree joints together?

yes you can or another 15 degree

 

[blawford]

Please tell me I am done!

Pipe position is where I want it, about an inch and a half from the wall. Angle is still slightly off but I figure I could probably get the cement floor in level and then cut it off flush? Either that or just use a flexible quick, cover it over with a decorative collar and live with it?

What do you lot think?

 

[Chalked]

Please tell me I am done!

Pipe position is where I want it, about an inch and a half from the wall. Angle is still slightly off but I figure I could probably get the cement floor in level and then cut it off flush? Either that or just use a flexible quick, cover it over with a decorative collar and live with it?

What do you lot think?

Use a 45 degree bend and twist the two bends until it lines up flat.
Hard to explain, but it will work.

 

[blawford]

Use a 45 degree bend and twist the two bends until it lines up flat.
Hard to explain, but it will work.

Will give that a try tonight.

 

[Radioman]

Are you sure you are close enough to to the wall? I would put a couple of boards across the excavation and rough fit the wc and cistern in situ with a pan coupler just to check. Remember to allow for wall tile etc. Worth the effort. You've done really well up,to,now. It's a horrible job.

 

[blawford]

Are you sure you are close enough to to the wall? I would put a couple of boards across the excavation and rough fit the wc and cistern in situ with a pan coupler just to check. Remember to allow for wall tile etc. Worth the effort. You've done really well up,to,now. It's a horrible job.

Yeah I think I am close enough, as I said, it is about 1.5" away and that is without skirting board on, picture might be a bit deceptive due to angle. Having said that I will double check everything tonight and probably do as you say and rough fit it before I lock everything in place.

Toilet I have is a mid level cistern (not sure if that is the right term, basically a high level cistern but with a short flush pipe) so there will be a bit of variance in the fitting, but I do want it as close to the wall as it can be from a space perspective.

 

[Chalked]

MKe sure you fit the pan far enough away for the toilet seat to stand up.

 

[Radioman]

MKe sure you fit the pan far enough away for the toilet seat to stand up.

That's the ladies installation when the seat meats Velcro to stay up

 

[blawford]

That's the ladies installation when the seat meats Velcro to stay up

Good point on the distance needed for the toilet seat to stand up. Velcro bodge would drive me nuts!

 

[blawford]

Are you sure you are close enough to to the wall?

You got in my head and I decided to make it closer to the wall. Measured again when I got home and I was a little over 2" from the edge of the waste pipe to the wall, decided closer was better than further away and I cut the gap down to 1".

Trouble is now that the soil pipe is now even higher compared to the floor level. Tried the earlier suggestion of twisting the two joints on each other to sort out the angle of the final opening but couldn't get it to help. Here is where I am at currently and I could do with some suggestions on how to solve it, preferably quickly, as I really need to draw a line under this part of the project.


All good and level this way.


Not level this way.


Bottom of the spirit level is where the line of the floor is. So now quite far above it.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

maybe put a 15 degree one into the fernco coupling and put a 90 bend where the two 15 degrees are now, you might need to dig down a bit more from the fernco to the elbow

but without being there its hard to say

 

[blawford]

maybe put a 15 degree one into the fernco coupling and put a 90 bend where the two 15 degrees are now, you might need to dig down a bit more from the fernco to the elbow

but without being there its hard to say

It isn't two 15 degrees currently, it is a 45 and and 15. But yeah, I see what you are thinking and it is something that I have tried before, I then came up with the idea I have now and it seemed to be better for a while.

The other thought I had was to dig a bit more out below the pipe so that it reduces the angle of the pipe, takes a bit of height out and swap the 15 for a 30?