Vaillant Plus 831 v Ideal Vogue Logic Plus 40KW v Worcester Si Compact 30 KW

[naut2k0]

Hi All,

I just wrote a long post and then suddenly lost it when it came up to submit it .. :disappointed:

So here goes again, but a lite version incase it happens again and I can add some more info mid way :wink5:

I've had several people come and look at my current boiler and I am looking to get a new one, including a powerflush prior to a new kitchen being fitted.

House is a 1930s End of terrace property wih 7 rads and 1 towel rad. Currently boiler is an ancient 20 yr Potterton.

Flowrate of house is 20l/min near the stopcock tested at the external hose pipe and 9.5l/min at the kitchen sink.

I have been suggested by different fitters as follows:

1) British Gas - Worcester Si Compant 30 KW - 12.3l/min (10 year warranty as long as I go with Homeserve 200) - £4.1k + (£15-18per month after year 1)
2) Independent - Vaillant Plus 831 24KW - 12.7l/min (7yr warranty) - £3.5k
3) Independent - Ideal Vogue Logic Plus 40 KW - 16.4l/min - £3.7k - (5yr warranty)

Questions I have are:

1)flowrate, eventhough my cold water flow is 20l/min, what realistically would my flowrate be for HW and CH and should I think about having the higher flowrate of the Ideal?
2)warranty, because I will be having a power flush, does the varying warranty matter?
3)boiler, I know each engineer has a preference and pretty much the models above were suggested are these all on par, do people have a preference?
4)loft conversion, looking at future proofing, will these be okay if an en suite is to be added at a later date?

I think that's it for now :wink5:

Thanks in advance! I can provide more info if necessary!

Naut

 

[Ermintrude]

Check valve is built into the filling loop assembly as supplied by ideal and meets all water regs.

Vogue updates either done in factory or by ideal once registered. Free of charge!

Get Flue clip sorted and turn boiler off until its safe!

It's illegal to leave un commissioned gas appliance connected to gas supply!

 

[naut2k0]

Hey Zebedy, boiler was off and unconnected. The sparky is doing all the electrics now.

So he has found an Ideal Vogue (which was ruddy hard) as they seem in hard demand and Ideal don't like to ship them out via courier as they are getting damaged. It arrives tomorrow.

In the meantime, here are some pics from behind the boiler showing the bracket and the flue (I guess the same flue will work on the Vogue) and the pipework too.

 

[Ermintrude]

Yeh vogue and logic same flue system. Pipe work same at bottom I think.

The daylight coming through behind the bracket is a bit of a problem though. Wall should be made good inside and out. Not permitted to have a vent or penetration within 300mm of a flue.

Get the holes filled then get your self a free gas safe inspection because your fitter is a !!!!

 

[Ermintrude]

Never swapped logic + for a vogue but think vogue is longer is taller from top to bottom. And gas might be 22mm from memory?

 

[Scott_D]

Let's hope the gas supply isn't live back to the meter

 

[Ermintrude]

No one would disregard GSIUR to that extent! Sure meter is capped and temporary cross bonding in place

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

Zebedy, i think your being a little critical of the engineer, let him finish the job before you rip it to shreds, yes it looks rough but he might be fairly new to the game and its not finished yet

 

[Dotty]

Hopefully there is a gsr and it's not the op chancing his arm with us.

Not easy to tell but I'm watching this one see how it pans out!

 

[Leo21]

Zebedy, i think your being a little critical of the engineer, let him finish the job before you rip it to shreds, yes it looks rough but he might be fairly new to the game and its not finished yet

In other words , zebedy. Wind your neck in!

 

[phil the bucket]

Hopefully there is a gsr and it's not the op chancing his arm with us.

Not easy to tell but I'm watching this one see how it pans out!

Exactly what I was thinking croppie

 

[Leo21]

It is quite rough though. Is it one if AP,s jobs?

 

[Ermintrude]

Ok so how was the installer going to make good the old flue hole behind the boiler after he hung it? Make the external opening so huge he could get access? Or just crumple up template and shove in..... Ideal templates are card so it's much harder than with a Baxi.

 

[Rickster123]

It is quite rough though. Is it one if AP,s jobs?

How very dare you! I'm a clipboard man these days remember!

 

[novicegas]

Why was the reskim not done before hanging the boiler? It'll never be done now and it'll always look poor. Will painting the pipes add more strength to the runs, negating the use of clips, could be one excuse for not using even one! That much burn for what looks like a pressure relief is poor newbie or not.

 

[Ermintrude]

Reskim the customers project management but rest down to mate safe combi cowboy! Some one else did pipe work? Perhaps Ray Charles is back in the game?

 

[Richie_77]

This old boy never getting paid custurd got that much ammo on him thanks to a pack of arm chair critiques....

 

[dancinplumba]

Check valve is built into the filling loop assembly as supplied by ideal and meets all water regs.

Vogue updates either done in factory or by ideal once registered. Free of charge!

Get Flue clip sorted and turn boiler off until its safe!

It's illegal to leave un commissioned gas appliance connected to gas supply!

So why is there a check valve on CH side ? Do they fit two ? One on cold feed side as well ?

 

[vern]

This old boy never getting paid custurd got that much ammo on him thanks to a pack of arm chair critiques....

Yeah sorry you did'nt get paid pal, I will send you some clips in post as compo :devilish:

 

[Ermintrude]

It's fitted incorrectly! Check should be on DCW. And ball valve on return. Obviously a competent and well read installer. The system will never fill with valves in that configuration. More detailed review of components and mfr instructions in future! The valves have arrows on them to aid install. Probably just going to use ex filling loop!

 

[dancinplumba]

I know

 

[gassafe]

Sometimes those fill loops only come with one iso valve! You have to fit check valve on return or the loop cannot be disconnected otherwise!!

 

[Ermintrude]

Logic plus and vogue come with Iso valve on heating and ISo check valve and removable link as standard. If you have had a boiler with incomplete or defective one call ideal and they will happily send you a replacement. The early logic plus filling assembly (blue knob and u shaped link) had and issue with the check valve sticking and not allowing water to pass in to system. Mostly the 2010 models

 

[Richie_77]

Yeah sorry you did'nt get paid pal, I will send you some clips in post as compo :devilish:

If you could champ that would be ace. I though that this install was one of my best to date was even going to submit it to the gas safe inspector but you boys have sunk that battleship. Anyway chaps I'm off to resume my old vocation of chewing bread for ducks.

 

[naut2k0]

Hi All,

Sorry about the delay in updating everyone .. the boiler didn't come in end yesterday but ended up coming today so we have now had that fitted .... I still don't like the pipework - the new gas pipe is upgraded now. Someone needs to tell me what needs doing to correct the pipework issues - I understand there should be a valve fitted somewhere?????

Even if the pictures I paste can be annotated and sent back that would be a great help ...... The guy is a nice fella, but I want this done correctly..











Yes I know the flexible part should be up against the wall ...

 

[naut2k0]

Zebedy, i think your being a little critical of the engineer, let him finish the job before you rip it to shreds, yes it looks rough but he might be fairly new to the game and its not finished yet

Hmmmmm well he isn't new to the game ... and this is worrying me !

 

[naut2k0]

Hopefully there is a gsr and it's not the op chancing his arm with us.

Not easy to tell but I'm watching this one see how it pans out!

I'm not an op if that's what you are asking ....

Is there someone in the South West part of London here who wants to come and actually look and verify ....???

 

[naut2k0]

Ok so how was the installer going to make good the old flue hole behind the boiler after he hung it? Make the external opening so huge he could get access? Or just crumple up template and shove in..... Ideal templates are card so it's much harder than with a Baxi.

Good point !!

 

[naut2k0]

Why was the reskim not done before hanging the boiler? It'll never be done now and it'll always look poor. Will painting the pipes add more strength to the runs, negating the use of clips, could be one excuse for not using even one! That much burn for what looks like a pressure relief is poor newbie or not.

Tbh to keep costs down as I've already had to get some new rads in some rooms. Also, we're tiling and creating a box around the pipe work so it'll be hidden behind all this ....

 

[gassafe]

I'm surprised no one mentioned the two little screws holding up the bracket for this big heavy boiler lol

 

[gassafe]

And that pipework is a mess if I'm honest. Looks a right mash up, I don't care what anyone says.