Tindish leaking after boiler service

[Tigermad]

Had my second service on my unvented system. The same thing has happened as last time though. The tundish has started dripping. Last time it was crud that got under the seal on the system. It’s the same again. Plumber just came back and did some things and he could see it had stopped it the loft where the cylinder is then left. The tundish is still dripping though. Has anyone got any thoughts?

 

[townfanjon]

They can be a right pain, it may stop , try heating it to temp , otherwise you will have to get the engineer back

 

[Danb]

Had my second service on my unvented system. The same thing has happened as last time though. The tundish has started dripping. Last time it was crud that got under the seal on the system. It’s the same again. Plumber just came back and did some things and he could see it had stopped it the loft where the cylinder is then left. The tundish is still dripping though. Has anyone got any thoughts?

Had my second service on my unvented system. The same thing has happened as last time though. The tundish has started dripping. Last time it was crud that got under the seal on the system. It’s the same again. Plumber just came back and did some things and he could see it had stopped it the loft where the cylinder is then left. The tundish is still dripping though. Has anyone got any thoughts?

Could be faulty valve again,
I would say the expansion vessel needs looking at.

 

[Tigermad]

They can be a right pain, it may stop , try heating it to temp , otherwise you will have to get the engineer back

Thanks. It already at temperature. He’s been here twice today already. I will message him in the morning if it’s still doing it.
[automerge]1570910449[/automerge]

Could be faulty valve again,
I would say the expansion vessel needs looking at.

Hi. That’s what he came back to do.
[automerge]1570910506[/automerge]
How can it have stopped in the loft though and still be doing it outside?

 

[Stigster]

If it's a small enough amount of water coming through it may be trickling down the side wall of the tundish where it's hard to see. The second possibility is that the D2 (discharge pipe) is shared with another appliance which is letting by but I would assume you would probably know if that was the case.

 

[Tigermad]

If it's a small enough amount of water coming through it may be trickling down the side wall of the tundish where it's hard to see. The second possibility is that the D2 (discharge pipe) is shared with another appliance which is letting by but I would assume you would probably know if that was the case.

Thanks. Nope just for the boiler. Whole system was fitted brand new 2 years ago.
[automerge]1570910886[/automerge]
Shall I empty some hot water out and warm it back up again?

 

[Stigster]

If it's hot now I don't think it will help to do that. These things pass water after testing so frequently I have heard some plumbers don't even test them at service. However I do not agree with that at all and the device must be tested and if it will not seal it's time for a new one I'm afraid. It really is a pain testing these and all too frequently having them fail. Sometimes turning the head to its full discharge position and letting it snap back shut again can reseat it or clear any debris from it but sadly that doesn't often fix the problem.

 

[Tigermad]

If it's hot now I don't think it will help to do that. These things pass water after testing so frequently I have heard some plumbers don't even test them at service. However I do not agree with that at all and the device must be tested and if it will not seal it's time for a new one I'm afraid. It really is a pain testing these and all too frequently having them fail. Sometimes turning the head to its full discharge position and letting it snap back shut again can reseat it or clear any debris from it but sadly that doesn't often fix the problem.

Thanks. Why do they fail so soon after install? So it probably needs a new prv? I’ve just emptied the tank and it’s heating up now. I have a Honeywell home so can see it.

 

[Danb]

Agree with that stigster

 

[Stigster]

Emptying and refilling certainly won't do any harm. The changes in pressure and temperature might, just might stop it but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Absolute best of luck though.

I really do wish there was a more reliable design being used too. When something fails so often on a routine check to the point plumbers on my last G3 training day were openly admitting to not testing them. That just cannot be right.

 

[Tigermad]

just been in the loft and the tundish in the loft is definitely dripping. Is it safe until a plumber comes out?
[automerge]1570913851[/automerge]

Emptying and refilling certainly won't do any harm. The changes in pressure and temperature might, just might stop it but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Absolute best of luck though.

I really do wish there was a more reliable design being used too. When something fails so often on a routine check to the point plumbers on my last G3 training day were openly admitting to not testing them. That just cannot be right.

cheers it didn’t work. looks like the prv needs replacing. Wish I didn’t got for an unvented system now. If the boiler is too powerful can it cause them to fail often? I think my boiler is to big for the amount of radiators but that’s another story.

 

[king of pipes]

You keep saying boiler do you mean unvented cylinder ? as stated as part of the service these safety devices need to be operated and unfortunately they often dont reseat for whatever reason and need replacing . Kop

 

[Tigermad]

You keep saying boiler do you mean unvented cylinder ? as stated as part of the service these safety devices need to be operated and unfortunately they often dont reseat for whatever reason and need replacing . Kop

Nope. I meant boiler. Can the wrong size of my boiler effect the pressure in the cylinder and this can cause it to fail or like you said it’s just the reseating after a service that does it.

 

[Danb]

No mate boiler just to heat cylinder through coil.
Cylinder will be off cold main with a pressure reducing and prv valve built in one known as a combi valve

 

[king of pipes]

Post a picture please a bit confused here so I dont want to advise you further ???. Kop

 

[Tigermad]

Post a picture please a bit confused here so I dont want to advise you further ???. Kop

Hi. It doesn’t matter about the boiler I was going off topic for a bit. That’s probably a different topic for another day. More concerned about the cylinder at the moment.

 

[king of pipes]

What cylinder do you have? they are all different, heatrea sadia megaflo ? These can discharge water through the tundish when the air gap is depleted other manufacturers have now copied their design, others have a external expansion vessel all have temperature and pressure relief valves which operate as a safety devices to relieve excess water pressure and temperature if it is discharging safely then it's ok for the short term but will need a trained operative to diagnose the problem and carry out the necessary repair . Regards kop

 

[Stigster]

It is not dangerous whilst the safety valves are dripping. They will still operate properly in an overpressure/temperature situation.

As for regretting your choice, unvented cylinders are fine pieces of kit and you've been unlucky more than anything. When I service one I've always got a spare valve in case it fails on the test. They don't always fail, just when you service a lot of them you notice the failures adding up.to your average owner they give good service and no hassle.

 

[Tigermad]

Thanks for the replies. Sent the dripping tundish video to my plumber and still waiting for a reply. Here’s my setup.

 

[king of pipes]

Sack your plumber that is awful and not fitted to the regulations get a G3 engineer to tidy the system up . Kop

 

[Tigermad]

Sack your plumber that is awful and not fitted to the regulations get a G3 engineer to tidy the system up . Kop

I paid him a lot of money too. What needs doing to it?

 

[king of pipes]

To much to list he should be ashamed of himself if he's even qualified to even do the job which I doubt from those pictures I am working today so will back on tonight I am sure the other chaps can guide you apologies . Kop

 

[townfanjon]

Sorry Tigermad , these pictures are like a mock-up cylinder in a assessment center on how not to install an unvented cylinder.
I am not here to have a go so as they say on dragons den “ I am out “

 

[Tigermad]

Sorry Tigermad , these pictures are like a mock-up cylinder in a assessment center on how not to install an unvented cylinder.
I am not here to have a go so as they say on dragons den “ I am out “

Hi. So you are not going to give advice how you would have done it?

 

[townfanjon]

Hi. So you are not going to give advice how you would have done it?

Others will pal . I am off working in 5 mins .

 

[Stigster]

Just a few things I can spot and type out quickly as I'm on a mobile device right now...

The combination valve should be installed near or above the top of the cylinder so it doesn't need to be drained down to repair/service.

The D1 discharge pipe from the T & P valve must not exceed 600mm in length and that one exceeds that distance.

There must be a continuous vertical section of the D2 discharge pipe of at least 300mm before the first bend after the tundish. They certainly haven't done that unless maybe the pipe out of the tundish goes straight down through the ceiling. The pipe should run vertically (at least have a fall) before the tundish but this one has a long horizontal run instead.

The external expansion vessel must be mounted in a vertical orientation to prevent stagnation and silt trapping.Sadly yours is on its side on the floor.

I'm sorry OP but that's not installed correctly at all.

 

[Danb]

Defo needs re piping mate
Sorry

 

[Tigermad]

Just a few things I can spot and type out quickly as I'm on a mobile device right now...

The combination valve should be installed near or above the top of the cylinder so it doesn't need to be drained down to repair/service.

The D1 discharge pipe from the T & P valve must not exceed 600mm in length and that one exceeds that distance.

There must be a continuous vertical section of the D2 discharge pipe of at least 300mm before the first bend after the tundish. They certainly haven't done that unless maybe the pipe out of the tundish goes straight down through the ceiling. The pipe should run vertically (at least have a fall) before the tundish but this one has a long horizontal run instead.

The external expansion vessel must be mounted in a vertical orientation to prevent stagnation and silt trapping.Sadly yours is on its side on the floor.

I'm sorry OP but that's not installed correctly at all.

Well that’s going to cost thousands I’m guessing. :-(

 

[Brambles]

Tigermad,

I would suggest that ask the installer to show you his G3 qualification and also who his certifying body is. If he cannot provide it, you should ask for your money back in full. To add a little pressure consider referring him / her to Your local Trading Standards Office - they generally take action in such cases, because they are black and white so easy to progress to a warning letter or for Court action - he / she is either qualified or not.

I would very much doubt that the individual who installed this is qualified. There are far too many basic errors - even the pipe insulation looks like a good attempt by a 9 year old!


Beyond the G3 pressure regulation contraventions, The support for the base of the tank is in contravention of the Building Regulations - also bear in mind that a tank loading of circa 250kg supported by ceiling joists, rather than floor joists, is (in my view) unsafe.

It is a pity, because you have paid for a top of the range expensive UV tank.

 

[Tigermad]

Tigermad,

I would suggest that ask the installer to show you his G3 qualification and also who his certifying body is. If he cannot provide it, you should ask for your money back in full. To add a little pressure consider referring him / her to Your local Trading Standards Office - they generally take action in such cases, because they are black and white so easy to progress to a warning letter or for Court action - he / she is either qualified or not.

I would very much doubt that the individual who installed this is qualified. There are far too many basic errors - even the pipe insulation looks like a good attempt by a 9 year old!


Beyond the G3 pressure regulation contraventions, The support fir the base of the tank is in contravention of the Building Regulations - also bear in mind that a tank loading of circa 250kg supported by ceiling joists, rather than floor

Thanks. It was installed 2 years ago though. Isn’t it a little too late now? The guy is certified. He’s being doing his job for 30 years. I can’t ask for a refund now can I?

 

[Chuck]

Just a few things I can spot and type out quickly as I'm on a mobile device right now...

What Stigster said plus the Benchmark sticker on the cylinder should have been completed with the installer's name and contact details, etc. Without this any warranty on the cylinder will probably be deemed invalid by the manufacturer.

Did you receive a Building Regs compliance certificate covering the installation?

Thanks. It was installed 2 years ago though. Isn’t it a little too late now? The guy is certified. He’s being doing his job for 30 years. I can’t ask for a refund now can I?

Yes, you can. In a case like this you have between six and seven years to sue for breach of contract.

 

[Brambles]

There is no time limitation for redress on non compliance with regulations before they are identified.

So the installer is qualified. He / she installed it two years ago, registered it through their certifying body and you have been issued with a Certificate of Compliance by Building Control. That is what qualification means.

All you do now is send to Building Control the certificate and the pictures you have posted here - they will do the rest, initially by contacting the Certifying Body.