Replacing Back Boiler

[batfinki]

Hi all


I wondered if someone could give me a bit of advice.


I have a Back Boiler that has been condemned as it is leaking fumes which aren't all being expelled up the flue and so need to replace it with a Combi boiler. The Back Boiler is of course located behind the fireplace in the living room.


The property is a 3 bedroom semi with no more than 6 radiators and a towel rail.


Directly above the fireplace is the 2nd bedroom with the water tank in a large airing cupboard. I'd expect the water tank to be taken out and the new Combi boiler to go in there. The gas feed will need to be extended from the back boiler straight up into the cupboard above.


As I understand it with current regulations the radiators will need to have thermostatic valves fitted and the rooms need thermostats too. I presume the radiators don't need to be replaced.


I believe the loft tanks and the hot water tank will need to be disposed of. The Back boiler too. In the short term I intend on leaving the fire in place just for show.


I'm thinking of a Baxi Duo-tec Combi HE A as it has a 7 year warranty and appears reasonable value around £800.


Can anyone give me an idea of how much would be a decent quote for this job? I don't know a lot about the subject so I've pieced together research, plumber's advice and general heresay so please feel free to correct anything I've said.


Thanks very much


Steven

 

[hammers4spanner]

first thing springs up here is why a combi boiler???

 

[Rickster123]

Hi Steven welcome to the forum. ( great user name! )

There are so many variable on a job like this. Depends on pipe layout, gas pipework sizing, waste supply, etc. best bet is to get a 3 local GSR installers to quote for you.

 

[batfinki]

Thanks AP. I have talked to one guy who is going to give me a quote. He advised it's two days work so I presume the price will be in the region of £1800 (in Newcastle).

It's complicated by the fact that it's a property I let at the other end of the country. There are tenants in place and they are obviously without heating while I find somebody for the job! It also makes it a bit more difficult to get several quotes.

 

[batfinki]

Hammers - Not sure about why a combi boiler. I thought that's what you had to install these days?

 

[hammers4spanner]

two days sounds about right and to be fair if its done properly £1800 dont sound a bad price ,
i personally would go heat only as imo combis are plumbing evil

 

[Rickster123]

Some great guys in the north on here mate. Put a request in the looking for a plumber section of the forum.

 

[Dotty]

Hammers - Not sure about why a combi boiler. I thought that's what you had to install these days?

Not at all, you're confusing condensing - or high efficiency - with combi. Best all round solution is a system boiler with an unvented cylinder. You'll need a GSR with G3.

having a combi is like throwing the baby out with the bath water imo!

 

[batfinki]

Thanks AP - good advice.

Hammer - Q1 So with a system boiler I would leave the water tanks in place and just have to find another location for the boiler to go?

Q2 The Baxi site has a Baxi Bermuda BBU. Is it possible to replace the current BB with one of these?

 

[hammers4spanner]

Q1, primary circuit
Q2, never fitted one of the new back boilers one of the engineers on here prob have failing that just phone baxi for advice

 

[Killy Bing]

As you are at the other end of the country i would suggest a system boiler with an unvented cylinder. Less boiler wise to go wrong and even less for tenants to complain about as you wont be getting a cold shower when someone opens up the kitchen taps! Combis tend to be ideal for one bedroom flats and not so much 3 bed houses.

Post up in the plumber request section for some guys on here.
and try to keep the installer as your service engineer, he will then know the system and if he needs to clean out filters and such.

feel free to correct me if I'm wrong fellow plumbers, I'm new to this whole giving advice thing!

 

[Derek Hardman]

I will disagree about combi boilers, given that the water pressure is adequate they are still the most cost effective in terms of running costs, it is very important that the correct one is installed and not just the cheapest available, BBu replacements are ok, quite expensive and only have electric fire fronts these days, gas firefronts are not available.
The heat only would be the cheapest option, but not necessarily the best, system boilers with unvented cylinder take some beating in hot water supply, but is the most expensive install. Just my opinion.

 

[stoker122]

With the right pressure and flow rate, no problem with the right sized combi. Cheap = poor performance.
Unvented cylinders seem to rarely get serviced in rental properties as letting agents only usually want LLGSC done as cheap as poss.
I would go system boiler with decent controls and leave the vented hot water as long as performance is currently ok.

 

[hammers4spanner]

love how everyone deviates from OP's original question of how much for a combi /back boiler rip out .

you lot will be selling him ashp or solar panels next .

£1800 sounds pretty decent price from what you originally asked

if you go combi bear in mind glow worm offers lifetime warrantys on boilers and baxi you can get 10 year warrantys

 

[plumber0808]

Get a quote on the two, without seeing it. How old is the cylinder? Cylinder controls? I would think a combi is the cheapest option as you will have a boiler to maintain and not a boiler and cylinder.

I wouldn't fit a unvented cylinder and system boiler in a rental property too expensive.

It will work more efficiently with trvs but if you don't want the added expense then don't have them fitted.

 

[batfinki]

Thanks for all your advice gents. Got the first quote in as follows:

• Baxi Duo Tec Condensing Combination A Rated Boiler (complete with 7 years warranty)
• Official Baxi Vertical Flue system installed through loft and terminating through the roof of the property.
• Magnetic filter system installed under the boiler (This collects any metal debris floating around the system and prevents them entering the new boiler)
• Siemans Wireless Room thermostat installed (Part L Regulation requirement)
• All radiator valves throughout the property upgraded to Thermostatic valves (Part L Regulation requirement)
• New Gas supply installed in copper from the Gas Meter to the bedroom where the new boiler will be situated
• An electrician is required to install a powerpoint in the cupboard for the new boiler. The electricians labour costs are inlcuded in this quotation.
• A roofer is required to install the lead flashing on the roof of the property for the Vertical Flue system to be installed. The roofers labour costs are included in this quotation.
• Central Heating system fully flushed using Fernox Central Heating Cleaner
• Central Heating system fully protected using Fernox Central Heating Inhibitor
• New boiler fully commissioned by myself
• New boiler registered with Gas Safe and Building Control.

Total Price for the above, including all Materials, Labour and VAT. £2600


I'll get another quote as obviously I was hoping for much nearer £2000 - something like £1000 parts £1000 labour?

Also, should I expect costs to be split line by line on the quote?

 

[hammers4spanner]

The verticle flue makes it more costly , can you locate boiler in kitchen anywhere??
hot colds will be there , condense into near drain, and normally can ping flue straight through wall and power supply would be nearby .

 

[TonyC]

That looks like a sensible price, i agree with hammers4spanner about the vertical flue, they can easily add hundreds of pounds on to the cost of an install.
Tony.

 

[plumber0808]

Price sounds ok. As said a v/flue can add easily a few hundred as there having a roofer to pay as well.

i know a lot of people who have roofers do the flue. Unless it was treacherous I always do the flue.

 

[Rickster123]

Looks like a good quote. Full of info unlike some I've seen. I'd still get 3 quotes tho for piece of mind but remember cheap isn't always best.

 

[rab250]

Sounds like a decent price. I wouldn't do it for much less.

 

[Rickster123]

Hi rab long time no see!

 

[stevetheplumber]

You dont want a trv fitted in the same room as the roomstat is fitted

 

[lame plumber]

Id be looking to charge more than any quotes Ive seen so far, chaps got to make a living!

 

[stevetheplumber]

if your going fromopen vent to combi it will need more than a bit of cleaner and a magnaclean get it flushed or it will come back and bite you in 18months

 

[lame plumber]

if your going fromopen vent to combi it will need more than a bit of cleaner and a magnaclean get it flushed or it will come back and bite you in 18months

not if you use an integas, no plate hex to block!

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

that quote for £2600 is really good, i wouldnt do it for less

 

[TBServices]

that quote for £2600 is really good, i wouldnt do it for less

Depends on the standard of work.

I wouldn't do it for this much, and there's a reason for that.

 

[batfinki]

I really appreciate all the advice from you all. Estimate Number 2 has come in...

It's a bit cheaper, but the boiler is a cheaper one. Any opinions on whether the Ideal is decent enough? Looking at prices online, I reckon this boiler is around £200 cheaper than the Baxi in the other quote. At the moment I'm considering whether to take the 2nd quote but ask for a better boiler.
==============================================

Disconnect and Remove existing Back Boiler, Hot Water Cylinders & Tanks.
Supply and Fit New Ideal I-Mini 30 (2 year warranty) Combi Condensing Boiler with Time Clock, Vertical Roof Flue and Filling Loop.
Boiler to be located in the Airing Cupboard.
Supply and Fit Digital Room Thermostat.
Supply and Install Fernox Inhibitor to the System.
Commission, Test and Register new Appliance all to Current Gas Safety Regulations.


£2,200

 

[buckley plumb]

combi is the cheapest option if you fitted a open vent boiler you would have to fit a y plan or s plan to the system . also depending on the pipework you may have to repipe some of it . the one I did last wk had the cylinder piped up off the rad circuit as if it was just a radiator - would have ment complete new circs to the cylinder and a cylinder as the connections were corroded .combi not best for flow rates but cheapest option . as for price parts inc vert flue would be in the region of £1400 - £1800 depending on boiler