Problem with pumped shower intermittantly not activting the pump

[pc99mk]

Hi.

We have a shower pump (Salamander 1.5 bar) in the airing cupboard feeding two showers.
Both showers always worked perfectly in the past.

We had our ensuite refitted in November and had a two output valve fitted with an overhead and hand shower.
We now get a problem where sometimes operating that new valve doesn't cause the pump to kick in.

Sometimes operating the valve a few time solves the problem, other time we have to operated the shower in the other bathroom (which always works) then the new one works.

Once the pump has kicked in the shower works perfectly with good flow.

Our plumber has checked the new valve for debris, and altered the pipework feeding the pump, to no avail.
He insists that the pipework he installed is fine and the valve is fine.

Another thing I noticed was if you switch the pump off at the switch, the shower in the main bathroom still flows, but the new one doesn't.

The new shower does have a longer pipe run as the valve was moved from one wall to another. The pipes come from the pump up into the loft,where they split to the two showers. They then go down to where the old valve was and continue down to about 30 cm from the floor then along and round the corner and back up to the new valve.

Our plumber doesn't knowwhat else to do, but of course we are not very happy with the situation, having spent a lot of money on the new ensuite.

Does anybody have any suggestions on what else to check. Should I get another plumber in to investigate?
Any advice greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Graham.

 

[BLOD]

It sounds like there's not enough water flow through the new shower to activate the flow switch in the pump.
You could check the pipework for airlocks or blockages first but it may be that the new shower is too restrictive.
Fitting a negative head pump should sort it but they're not cheap, or replace the new shower with a less restrictive one.

 

[Masood]

I'd agree with Blod's opinion. Negative head or universal pump would likely cure it but they are a lot pricier. Is your other bathroom/shower at a lower level?

 

[pc99mk]

Wow.Thanks both. Wasn't expecting such a quick reply.

The new valve was ordered online, so it's probably not the greatest quality, but it does work a lot of the time. It works every day last week first time, Then yesterday it refused to work until I operated the hand shower valve and shook the head.

It seems to be worse the longer it's left between uses.

The other bathroom is on the same level and the cold water tank is in the loft on a raised platform so there should be a reasonable head.
If it was an airlock surely that would be cleared once the pump kicks in. Would itreform again quickly if that was the case?

It does sound like the valve is the likely culprit though, but that will be expensive to replace as it's a concealed one.

Another option we have been considering is replacing the hot water cylinder with a 'megaflo#type pressurized one. I'm guessing this wasalso solve the problem, but that's even more expensive.

Regards - Graham

 

[Masood]

Does sound like insufficient flow to trigger the flow switch. It's not juts head that affects it - if the gravity head is just on the limit and pipework resistance is high then it will have the same effect. Opening the other shower valve and shaking it can cause just enough of a trickle through to kick in the pump.

 

[pc99mk]

Thanks Masood

So do you think the longer pipe run is partially responsible for the issue. The previous shower worked flawlessly, but may have been at the limit. Extending the pipework has tipped it over the edge.

I wonder whether I should asked the plumber to reroute the pipes when I first saw what he'd done. If I was doing the job I would#ve extended the pipes in the loft and dropped down to the new location rather than going down from the old valve, along and backup again. Would that makea difference do you think?

I've checked the prices of the negative head pumps, and I think the money would be better spent going towards a pressurized cylinder. Am I correct that this would definitely solve the problem.

Do you guys generally rate these pressurized systems, and would you recommend 'Megaflo' or a different one. I'm guessing one of those will cost at least £2000 to get installed so it's not something I want to consider if it won't solve the problem.


Thanks again.

 

[Best]

The hand shower part of your new shower if used - especially if you lower it a bit, will often start the shower. You seem to have poor flow to start the pump.
If this is still an inconvenience, then a negative head pump will be easiest solution.
An unvented cylinder requires you have decent flow & pressure from your mains water. Also needs a discharge copper pipe taken to outside safely. All needs a G3 qualified plumber.
You can get cheaper unvented units than Megaflow - even half the price.
As to if I rate unvented highly, - I do generally prefer them.
Advantages are High pressure potable water to all outlets, balanced pressures to both hot & cold (if done right)
No pipework etc in attic normally.
Quieter, - as no ballvalve & open tanks to be filled.
No mechanical shower pumps to make noise or fail.
Unit can be sited most places (better at lower floor but near hot outlets if possible)
Cheaper than shower pumps, cold tank & copper cylinder by far.
Disadvantages are few, but the unit needs serviced once a year & needs the odd part replaced.
No storage of water if mains turned off.