Is Britherm pump a better choice than Grundfos

[raidac]

Is Britherm pump a better choice than Grundfos for

Vaillant ecoTEC Plus 400 15kW Heat Only Boiler​

Wiring is SPlan and the intention is to install Grundfos UPS3 15-50/65-130​

​

 

[Chuck]

IMO, stick with Grundfos.

 

[John.g]

The UPS3 is a fine pump but a word of caution if the system is open vented as even if set to its lowest speed setting, CC1 at 4.2M, may still be too powerful for a 15kw heating system and cause pump over, however it can be run in other lower modes which may be OK.

 

[raidac]

The UPS3 is a fine pump but a word of caution if the system is open vented as even if set to its lowest speed setting, CC1 at 4.2M, may still be too powerful for a 15kw heating system and cause pump over, however it can be run in other lower modes which may be OK.

Thanks John. That was going to be my next question. Is the pump too powerful for 15kw? My studio flat (1 main room, 1 toilet and 1 bathroom) is on the 4th floor of a Victoria conversion. About 90% of gas engineers have wanted to put in a combi. Luckily 1 engineer indicated that the combi might not work for pressure reasons and if it did work it might not pass for getting a landlord certificate. The pipes into the building are 22mm. For that reason I decided to stick with the heat only system. I've been unlucky as the Vaillant approved guy who fitted the boiler didn't wire the pump to the boiler. He's now saying that wasn't part of the job!!

The UPS3 is a fine pump but a word of caution if the system is open vented as even if set to its lowest speed setting, CC1 at 4.2M, may still be too powerful for a 15kw heating system and cause pump over, however it can be run in other lower modes which may be OK.

Thanks John. That was going to be my next question. Is the pump too powerful for 15kw? My studio flat (1 main room, 1 toilet and 1 bathroom) is on the 4th floor of a Victoria conversion. About 90% of gas engineers have wanted to put in a combi. Luckily 1 engineer indicated that the combi might not work for pressure reasons and if it did work it might not pass for getting a landlord certificate. The pipes into the building are 22mm. For that reason I decided to stick with the heat only system. I've been unlucky as the Vaillant approved guy who fitted the boiler didn't wire the pump to the boiler. He's now saying that wasn't part of the job!

 

[John.g]

Is your system sealed with expasion vessel and how many rads?

 

[raidac]

Thanks John. That was going to be my next question. Is the pump too powerful for 15kw? My studio flat (1 main room, 1 toilet and 1 bathroom) is on the 4th floor of a Victoria conversion. About 90% of gas engineers have wanted to put in a combi. Luckily 1 engineer indicated that the combi might not work for pressure reasons and if it did work it might not pass for getting a landlord certificate. The pipes into the building are 22mm. For that reason I decided to stick with the heat only system. I've been unlucky as the Vaillant approved guy who fitted the boiler didn't wire the pump to the boiler. He's now saying that wasn't part of the job!!

Thanks John. That was going to be my next question. Is the pump too powerful for 15kw? My studio flat (1 main room, 1 toilet and 1 bathroom) is on the 4th floor of a Victoria conversion. About 90% of gas engineers have wanted to put in a combi. Luckily 1 engineer indicated that the combi might not work for pressure reasons and if it did work it might not pass for getting a landlord certificate. The pipes into the building are 22mm. For that reason I decided to stick with the heat only system. I've been unlucky as the Vaillant approved guy who fitted the boiler didn't wire the pump to the boiler. He's now saying that wasn't part of the job!

Is your system sealed with expasion vessel and how many rads?

I have an expansion tank above the boiler 4 radiators (2 large in main room, 1 small in the hallway, and 1 small in the bathroom

 

[John.g]

I could recommend a Wilo Yonos Pico like my own 6M where you can set the pump head incrementally in 0.1M steps between 0.5M and 5M.
What is the boiler replacing and if so what/where was the circ pump/.

 

[raidac]

I could recommend a Wilo Yonos Pico like my own 6M where you can set the pump head incrementally in 0.1M steps between 0.5M and 5M.
What is the boiler replacing and if so what/where was the circ pump/.

Potterton Netaheat 10/1 was the old boiler located around 25 feet away from the pump, copper hot water tank, the junction box, and the cold water storage tank. The old pump was multihead 111 made by circulating pumps ltd.
The wiring was Y plan

I've replaced with Vaillant ecoTEC Plus 400 15kW Heat Only Boiler. The installer didn't complete the electrics or remove link card from the PCB so the thermostat and pump have been controlling the new boiler.
The old pump with a Drayton actuator on top is no longer working and has finally stopped working.

The plan is to now put the new pump next to the boiler. This will avoid having to lay a cable 25 across the main room. The new Wiring will beSPlan and the intention is to install Grundfos UPS3 15-50/65-130
Boiler and pump will be 25 feet away from hot water tank and cold water tank

 

[John.g]

Well, as stated, the UPS3 may be suitable but wouldn't be my choice in your situation as any of the 3 CC (constant speed) settings may be too high (lowest is 4.2M) this leaves CP&PP settings, CP1 is a constant 3M which possibly should be OK but CP2 at 4.5M is "worse" than CC1, PP1 at 2M/1M is probably too low, this leaves PP2 at 3.9M/1.8M and possibly suitable.

If you opt for the Wilo Yonos Pico 6M then CC2 is 3.8M which because the pump has a lower output than the UPS3 would be a better fit than the UPSs CC1 at 4.2M but the very big advantage of the Wilo is that both the CP and the PP settings are almost infinite between 0.5M and 5M.
You can also read off the head, flowrate & power output of the Wilo. (the UPS3 gives no info, not even the power in watts)
No doubt there are other pumps (maybe including Grundfos) that have the same incremental settings but I certainly know the Wilos capabilities after neary 4 years.

I wouldn't have the same reservations with the UPS3 with a sealed system, even if it is overkill in a 15kw system.

 

[raidac]

Well, as stated, the UPS3 may be suitable but wouldn't be my choice in your situation as any of the 3 CC (constant speed) settings may be too high (lowest is 4.2M) this leaves CP&PP settings, CP1 is a constant 3M which possibly should be OK but CP2 at 4.5M is "worse" than CC1, PP1 at 2M/1M is probably too low, this leaves PP2 at 3.9M/1.8M and possibly suitable.

If you opt for the Wilo Yonos Pico 6M then CC2 is 3.8M which because the pump has a lower output than the UPS3 would be a better fit than the UPSs CC1 at 4.2M but the very big advantage of the Wilo is that both the CP and the PP settings are almost infinite between 0.5M and 5M.
You can also read off the head, flowrate & power output of the Wilo. (the UPS3 gives no info, not even the power in watts)
No doubt there are other pumps (maybe including Grundfos) that have the same incremental settings but I certainly know the Wilos capabilities after neary 4 years.

I wouldn't have the same reservations with the UPS3 with a sealed system, even if it is overkill in a 15kw system.

Thanks again, John. I've passed this info to Vaillant and asked them to recommend the best pump for the job. I'll be able to send Vaillant reply to the installer. For this job, I've had different proposals from different people:

1. wanting to leave the boiler 25ft away from the pump & using remote switching
2. wanting to leave the boiler 25ft away from the pump & not explaining technique
3. wanting to move pump which if it works I like best as fewer wires. He's the guy proposing Grundfos

 

[John.g]

Very good, forgot to ask you about the old pump since you have still got it, is it just a 3 speed traditional circ pump and what is/was its current setting??., presume its a 6M pump, can't find any pump curves which would be interesting.

 

[raidac]

Very good, forgot to ask you about the old pump since you have still got it, is it just a 3 speed traditional circ pump and what is/was its current setting??., presume its a 6M pump, can't find any pump curves which would be interesting.

The old pump was multihead 111 made by circulating pumps Ltd. I'm not a plumber or gas engineer so I can't coment on existing pump speed. I'll wait and see what Valliant say.. Unfortunately my trust level is low with gas people so I'm checking as much as I can with Vaillant

 

[John.g]

Can you post a few photos of the old pump, nameplate etc, it may have a switch with 1,2,3 on it or I,II,III, lf so note the setting. if it's still working and has LEDs, a photo while running of these LEDs.