Indirect system

[ste b]

Hi good to be back for tips and advice from the forum,having done a few jobs since completing my c and g course i have not yet come accross working with indirect system,everyone i been to had combi"s and the work has been easy, i know what i about to ask is easy to you guys here but i am just making sure before i do the work,simple washbasin and toilet installation like for like,but having not come accross this type of common house-hold system i just need a little help,i pretty sure i dont have to drain all the cylinder of water to change the hot water taps,my question is about which valves to turn off,am i right in saying turn off the gate valve for the hot water which is located near to the vessel then run the hot water tap till it stops running,also do i have have to turn off the iso valve located in the attic or does that not matter,also do i need to tie up ball cock in loft for cold water draining to change the cw taps and wc,or should i just turn off the gate valve/iso valve located under the cistern.......i know its sounds amatuerish but i never touched this system and to be honest college just showed us how to plumb in a vessel,lol. cheers guys any info appreciated.......

 

[jtsplumbing]

Well what can you say, if some of you guys think that this standerd of work is acceptable for some-one who is C&G and been at for over 4 + years, then what are your standerds like ?? Yes we all have to learn and we all make mistakes, but in all honesty would you accept this in your own house ? and would you be happy to pay for it ?
Comment for philtheflush ! I would be more than happy to take Ste B out for some prectical experance if he lived in this area, as for your comment on leaveing collage knowing everything, well I did it the old way ! Apprenticeship in the 60s and gess what ? it was in Manchester. Autograph in post.

 

[ste b]

Jts plumbing and gray obviously have not read other post by me on here,i dont remeber saying i have been doing plumbingfor 4 years,i do agree with some comments,and will take on-board for next time,and mike thanks for the constructive critisism................

 

[Best]

In fairness, you are man enough to show pictures of your work & take comments on it. Plus you didnt use plastic pipe plumbing like a lot would.

 

[ste b]

i nothing to hide best i learning,and i hate plastic,lol...........i not after a job from here,lol,just advice and thats exactly what i got,allready had an offer i cant refuse,so its all good...............

 

[Gray0689]

He may have been doin a little bit for 4 years. We prob do more in a week than ste b has done in that time

We've all gotten wet when we started

Give him a break

I know plumbers that have been doin it for 5 years. And they can't do a better job than that

And there's one in particular that is gas safe too!!!

I'm not disagreeing Simon but we kind of know when something don't just look right and I'm sorry that looks far from right it looked better on the before picture IMHO

 

[kay-jay]

ste b you seem to have a good attitude and are obviously keen to progress your skills and knowhow which imo is half the battle.

good luck mate,

 

[Gray0689]

i nothing to hide best i learning,and i hate plastic,lol...........i not after a job from here,lol,just advice and thats exactly what i got,allready had an offer i cant refuse,so its all good...............

I wish you the best of luck mate
My best advice is always look at the job and think would I be happy with that in my own house

 

[philtheflush]

jts you said it an apprentiship were are their apprentiships now. we all got to learn and if learning is by making mistakes well so be it but its a bit cruel asasinating some ones ability because its not as good as yours the biggest thing you lack when you leave college is confidence and by getting good advice helps with that because you have an idea of what youre going to face. anyway (1) is the plumbing different in manchester and (2) i hope you put a stamp on the envelope no hard feelings

 

[philtheflush]

ive got to say that pipe on the cistern dont half give me a laugh it looks like a water confuser which way is the water going good luck steve b

 

[jtsplumbing]

Hi Phil, sorry mate us old country boys dont earn enougth to buy stamps, not like you high flying city plumbers lol, Still think that ste b needs to spend some time with another plumber,to get some advise, may-be you could help if he is in your neck of the woods, Still Ive found some-one who bites very easey, may-be I can wind you up on next post, at least we can have a laugth about things, just my northern sense of humour.
:chillpill:

 

[philtheflush]

no worries i agree with you by the way im a taffy i live in caerphilly so hes abit far away but i guess a wind up keeps you on your toes

 

[jtsplumbing]

Cheers phil, did-not think the Welsh had a sense of humor, just large welly boots, are their any good looking sheep near you or are they all spoken for ?? any chance you could fix me up ?

 

[E4gas]

Ste b.. Is that the right fixing for the basin , i fitted the same one and used basin bolts , yours looks like it tilting forward

 

[E4gas]

The w/ c inlet looks a piece of art , a flexy tap con would have looked ok , all the best

 

[ste b]

jts said "Still Ive found some-one who bites very easey,"

One on every forum lol,which school did you say you went too lol,easy is easy,lol looking forward to your forum input.....

 

[Dannypipe]

Just read this thread and looked at the photos. It's not pretty but then you have allready been told that.

At least you are on here, trying to improve your skills, and despite the fact that the pipe work isn't good....you've taken the time to clean the joints up and probably taken great care in making them.

So in short, they won't leak.

I'd give you a good mark for effort, but execution falls short of the mark in my opinion. Keep trying and remember to try and keep things simple. It will look best that way.

Thanks for posting the pics. Makes the thread more interesting.

 

[scotty plumber]

Just looked at the pictures and the feed to the cistern is very very bad, as somebody else stated you could have cut in isolate valve lower down then made a neat offset straight up to tap con ( invest in a hilmor! )

 

[nickelarsed]

One thing I would add is that I notice you are putting ptfe around your isolation valves. They have an olive which makes the seal, the thread on them does not need ptfe because the water should never reach that far. Just make sure the pipe is engaged fully into the fitting and the olive is on straight, then tighten up. your wasting your time by putting tape on those threads and it will look unprofessional.

 

[Best]

You are right, - ptfe on valve threads! Def a no no! I would add that paste should always be used & to be a bit controversial, - I would avoid those ordinary ballofix valves anyhow, as they reduce flow, leak at seal where slot is, (especially on hot pipes) & often break. The better quality type that is full flow & is made same as a lever valve is best.

 

[scotty plumber]

Just looked at the pictures and the feed to the cistern is very very bad, as somebody else stated you could have cut in isolate valve lower down then made a neat offset straight up to tap con ( invest in a hilmor! )

Is there any reason why you did not just use a couple of bends on feed to cistern? Also the waste pipe on whb could have been altered from under pipe-box to tidy it up and also it look's as though you used the old bent soil connector which you would have probably been better replacing

 

[SimonJohns]

You are right, - ptfe on valve threads! Def a no no! I would add that paste should always be used & to be a bit controversial, - I would avoid those ordinary ballofix valves anyhow, as they reduce flow, leak at seal where slot is, (especially on hot pipes) & often break. The better quality type that is full flow & is made same as a lever valve is best.

I would of said that ptfe used correctly (on olive and not threads) is 100x better than paste for servicing.

But disagree on the valve but the quality of the valve. The tap that it was feeding appeared to have very thin flexis, so in this job it would of made very little difference

On bath taps I would say you have to have a full bore

 

[Best]

I would of said that ptfe used correctly (on olive and not threads) is 100x better than paste for servicing.

But disagree on the valve but the quality of the valve. The tap that it was feeding appeared to have very thin flexis, so in this job it would of made very little difference

On bath taps I would say you have to have a full bore

Appreciate that the flow in some cases won't be made any worse, or indeed matter, like feeding a toilet cistern, if using ballofix. And frankly, we have all used them, although I am not fond of them.
As to the ptfe / tape on olive choice, I always say paste, (just a smear) providing it is non hardening, as it will seal well & also makes compressing a joint easier because it means less friction. I don't see an issue with servicing problems using paste, unless it is Boss White type which will cause problems on hot pipes.
Someone on another thread suggested using gas tape over the olives, which sounds a good idea.

 

[GerrythePlumber]

It was always emphasised to me that pipework should take the shortest route, and formed bends are preferable to fittings.
Try to keep pipework clip distance from the wall and don' use dissimilar fittings if they are visible.
Neatness is what impresses the customer. It doesn't make it right just because it works. Would you buy a car with different coloured doors?

 

[Best]

It was always emphasised to me that pipework should take the shortest route, and formed bends are preferable to fittings.
Try to keep pipework clip distance from the wall and don' use dissimilar fittings if they are visible.
Neatness is what impresses the customer. It doesn't make it right just because it works. Would you buy a car with different coloured doors?

That makes perfect sense, - to a plumber, but with some of the public, you would have to actually show them the right way & the wrong way to do a job, before they might understand! I see ( & I am sure we all do ) lovely new bathroom jobs with the whole look spoiled because the pipes are in the wrong place. When I point this out to people, they usually stare at it for a moment & then say, " oh yes! I see what you mean! ".

 

[REDSAW]

Job completed this afternoon,i ended up bunging the tank and all draining went well,water was off approx 20 mins whilst i fitted new isoloation valve"s to new wash basin hw and cw,then i run every out-let in turn and carried out rest of work with only one small problem which was the chrome waste for basin,32mm my arse lol,fitted white compression fittings which i still not happy with,as i had to get bigger seals because the chrome pipe did not fit well into 32mm push fit at all,i had to but bigger seals to seal into the 32 mm compression fittings,something to bear in mind with these chrome basin traps, can you buy chrome fittings ? .... i never seen them.....................anyway cheers for all your comments,job done even had 3 cakes baked for me by the owners daughter lol..........

yes you can get chrome fittings at bnq. you only needed one!. and a s.s. flexi would look better dont think?
interesting mix though chrome and white, the only other place i have seen that is on the wifes car.lol.

 

[scotty plumber]

That feed to cistern gets worse every time i look, you should consider going back to change it

 

[ste b]

some people would say go away,but not me,i am going back to the house this week to sort out the pipework to W/C cistern,i did explain to customer why i have done the waste that way and they did not want to pay for the chrome fittings and chrome pipe, i could not get push fit fitting for the waste as the chrome pipe only measures 30mm (why i dont know) and they would not fit onto the fittings,so i had to get the compression ones and put different seals in to seal the dodgy chrome pipe that was supplied with the wash-basin,i could not see any other way i could have done the waste as it would not angle back to the wall rather than the side due to the fittings,so i am stuck with it,but as i said i spoke to the customer today and am going back this week,i agree it does look bad but @ college they drummed into us less fittings and use bends,i allready cut pipework and have the 90 yorkshire fittings ready to be installed,pictures will be posted of alltered work,as for the sink,it is bolted to the wall,but the customer told me to leave the old sink bracket in place to give extra support,cheers for all the input,its appreciated.........

 

[Best]

I feel the sink waste pipe could have stayed vertical & if you really needed it closer to the wall you could use 2 of 45 degree bends or the male & female angled bends (all in white).
The chrome trap could probably point straight back. Wonder if the larger type push on waste fittings - or m&f bends, would fit on the trap? They use a heavier rubber washer, so are universal.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

you could have probably cut the chrome pipe shorter and turn the trap towards the wall

 

[ste b]

All sorted now,cheers for all the comments,good and bad lol,pipework improved,the waste will stay the same this time, and more effort needed for next time lol............customer happy so i am also.....no leaks so soldering still 100% lol,new tools and equipment invested in,eg "CISTERN BUNGS" and a little bit more ideas from the forum which is all taken on board,not bad for free,them colleges should use these forums lol......cheers,looking forward forward to next task,could be new pessure differental valve on my boiler,or complete valve change,another washroom is in the pipeline with a shower cubicle,thatll be interesting..........