Help appreciated for back boiler ventilation problem

[MAG]

Hi there,

I really hope someone can help me.

I am a tenant in a mid-terrace property with a back boiler (approx 15 years old) situated behind the gas fire in the living room. There is a floor vent of 100cm2 near to the fire and boiler and two brick vents on the outside under the living room window.

I had Scottish Gas in yesterday to fix some leaky radiators and was issued with an "At Risk" notice for the boiler due to insufficient ventilation and switched off my heating. Reasons given were as follows:-

1) Vents on the outside were not of the appropriate size and condition i.e. holes taper inwards so difficult to gauge size and there is some debris in the holes
2) Floor vent indoors should not just be in contact with the free space under the house, it should actually be connected by pipe (ducted?) direct to the outdoor vent because (a) it is a midterraced property so other houses may use the same vents for free air and (b) because of the age of the house there could be a blockage under the house that is stopping the free circulation of the air.

I have spoken to my Landlord and he is refusing to believe the above. I also had some really nice plumbers out today who were a bit dubious about the situation as well and wanted to make calls before they decided if the appliance is really at risk or just NCS.

Can anyone clarify if this set up sounds AR? I'm paying a lot of rent to this guy and with a baby I really want to have clarification before turning the heating back on.

Thanks in advance.

Janice

 

[diamondgas]

Hi Janice and :welcome: to the forum!

Truth ....... ! It is your Landlords responsibility to make sure you are safe! ...... Reality is the appliance is 15yrs+ and I'm assuming no one has died of carbonmonoxide poisoning yet? Without having 1st hand knowledge its not one to call to be honest!

BG err on the side of legalities! So are right if they've proven you have less than 90% of the required appliance ventilation! That's our rules! 100cm is a lot of boiler though IMHO!

 

[MAG]

Thanks for your quick response Diamondgas

Assuming that the outside vents mean that there is less than 90% of the required appliance ventilation, would it be possible for the LL to replace these with more suitable vents? If so, is the situation about ducting true? Would the vents have to be joined by pipe because of the characteristics of the property, i.e. old and mid-terraced? Or is it sufficient to have the floor vent only accessing the air under the house?

Sorry, I'm just trying to get my head around this with a newborn in the house

 

[diamondgas]

Ducting is, I believe, a 'have to have' under floor unfortunately! The guy is really covering his backside unfortunately! BUT as I'm not testing your appliance I couldn't call it! At the end of the day you, as the responsible person, must decide whether you are willing to turn your boiler back on as is or get on to your Landlord to make your installation safe! I'll emphasise that it is your Landlord who is responsible for your safety! Let them take the grief IMO!

regards having a newborn or a grandparent in the home doesn't make much difference to be honest. 24hr tesco's sell fan heaters! That isn't meant as an insult just a fact, if you're concerned about your child's welfare then alternative forms of heat are available That sounds so condescending! i hope you don't take it that way It can be frustrating when something you've lived with without any problems all of a sudden is no longer there for you

 

[desrob]

ducting to out side air makes sense,i had some thing similar and was under the impression the ventilation path is clear and connecting vent is sized accordingly

 

[hydrotherm]

Not worth messing around with borderline sub floor ventilation! If I were your landlord I would fit a new Stadium Black hole ventilator and CO alarm for safe measure.No brainer with a baby in the house.

 

[MAG]

Thanks guys. Diamondgas - of course not, I am just so grateful for the advice.

Tbh, I've only just moved into the house and hate it as it's been one thing after another with it.

I found a gas inspection report from Scottish Gas that is dated 3 weeks before I moved in deeming the boiler to be at risk due to ventilation and the LL went ahead with the rental anyway.

The guys out today seemed to think that as the boiler had been functioning for the last 15 years then it would not be required to be ducted to the outside vents - it was sufficient enough to have access to the air under the house provided the outside vents were of the appropriate size.

Hmm. I'm thinking I def need to go get a 3rd opinion myself as the LL is refusing to discuss!

 

[diamondgas]

Hey MAG .. end of the day if i turned up to a house with the correct sized ventilation grille fitted to the floor it would still be Not To Current Standards because standards require it to be ducted! I can not change the size of your vent without ducting it, as standards request! However homes with the correct size ventilation using 'underfloor' are safe to leave on but do not adhere to todays regulations! Your landlord however is not taking on board to their responsibilities IMO.

 

[MAG]

Ok so the plot thickens! The LL has informed me that the vent in the living room was only fitted in September last year so by fitting this without ducting was not meeting current standards?

Sorry, if I'm being dozy here. If the outside vents are to be replaced with those of a suitable size would they then need to be ducted also?

Thanks a million

 

[stevetheplumber]

i just want to ask when this need for ducting came in? i dont recall seeing anything about it

 

[diamondgas]

i just want to ask when this need for ducting came in? i dont recall seeing anything about it

Got to get kirkgas in on this reagards regs steve IMHO Without looking it up it sits prominent in "WTH"! lol one of those strange rules that all of a sudden became FACT I believe, unless I read it wrong when it was around! lol ...

 

[REDSAW]

is that, tapered holes on exterior vent brick containing debris=ncs
and non ducted floor vent=ncs=====a.r.?.

did they perform a spillage and flue test on the appliance?.

 

[MAG]

Yesterday, they were out to repair the radiators and so other than inspecting the outside vents and the inside vent, they didn't do anything to the boiler. They gave me a certificate and letter saying "At Risk - Insufficient Ventilation". I have copies of previous years servicing reports and each states "At Risk - Ventilation" and "NCS - Flue".

He explained that he had come to this conclusion by taking into account the factors I mentioned in the opening post.

As far as I'm aware, the LL used a builder to put in the vent in September, SG said "At Risk - Vents" again regardless of the new vent and when it was put out to rent, the letting agents received a report from their plumber stating all was ok. I found the paperwork from September stating "At Risk", the same letting agent contractor came out and said all was ok again. Then yesterday, the SG engineer hit me with the letter.

Needless to say I'm extremely concerned!

 

[diamondgas]

MAG --- Are you the landlord?

 

[MAG]

Nope definitely not. I just want to know what I'm dealing with as I have a baby in the house and the Landlord has been nothing but difficult about this whole situation and every other situation we've been face with since moving in.

When I moved in, there was a drawer with manuals etc for white goods, a SG homecare agreement and a bundle of SG reports from the last few years but no paperwork as to the remedial work carried out in terms of the floor vent. I received an email tonight from the letting agents giving me the gas inspection report that I should have received months ago and the information that the vent was installed in September.