bg scrappage scheme

[gaspastemania]

Been hearing an advert on the radio quite alot lately about british gas boiler scrappage , get a worcester installed and get £400 off or £200 on any other leading boiler . So that must bring the price they charge for a boiler upgrade down to about £5000 then !!!

Speaking to some bg engineers i know tho and they say they get told condemn or say they dont make that part anymore so they get to quote boiler upgrade .So i guess thats the catch condemn boiler put frightners on cust then hit them with a big bill for boiler upgrade.

 

[Puddle]

Speaking to some bg engineers i know tho and they say they get told condemn or say they dont make that part anymore so they get to quote boiler upgrade .So i guess thats the catch condemn boiler put frightners on cust then hit them with a big bill for boiler upgrade.

I cannot believe bg would do this kind of thing,

what's £5000 between customer and supplier ,when you can put it on your bill for nice easy payments

imho

:13:

 

[unguided1]

sounds like another BG con to suck money out of the old and vunerable!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RoryD]

That's a lied!!! You can't go round saying that mate. No one gets told to say that. Someone somewhere is telling porkies, could you imagine being instructed to say that and it not get out? BG shares would plummet. I know 2 blokes sacked for telling customers just that

 

[RoryD]

There's a few bitter and twisted blokes in here eh?

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

ive been to a few jobs after bg and heard oh that parts obsolete when there on the shelf or you need a power flush for rip off amounts !!

i really cant believe how they get away with it !! rant over

 

[huddster]

i work for BG and i feel i give good advice to customers, if there boiler is hanging off the wall or dangerous i recommend them getting a quote, as would any engineer, if the boiler is old but safe and the customer is happy, then i say see you next year for the service. BG is not out to con the customer, its a British company out to make money by delivering a great service just like every independent company out there, yes it probably has its share of muppets but i unfortunately the industry is full of them

 

[huddster]

would you be able to guarantee a powerflush for as long as a customer lives in that property?

 

[unguided1]

Hi hudster and roryd please do not be offended, my comments are not a personal attack on yourselves who I am sure are excellent engineers and do not missell but if you look into some of my threads regarding BG you will understand my disdain for the company, especially for the tactics that I and my customers have witnessed by BG in south oxfordshire a few years ago.
I believe the misselling goes on because of BGs need to pay shareholders
bitter and twisted! yes definately, after 30 years in the trade what do you expect with all the changes ive seen.
Powerflush, would I be so crass as to offer a customer a power flush for £700 with a contract to repair faults on a system, when the problem is faults on the system and the system clearly does not need a power flush? No I wouldnt.
Also BG are contracted to do annual services on many boilers would I turn up and just stick a telegan into a flue and say thats ok for another year. No I carry out a full inspection

 

[gaspastemania]

i work for BG and i feel i give good advice to customers, if there boiler is hanging off the wall or dangerous i recommend them getting a quote, as would any engineer, if the boiler is old but safe and the customer is happy, then i say see you next year for the service. BG is not out to con the customer, its a British company out to make money by delivering a great service just like every independent company out there, yes it probably has its share of muppets but i unfortunately the industry is full of them

If there is a boiler hanging off wall i would recommend them getting a quote !!!!!!!!!
OMG !!!!!! first thing i would do is make boiler safe and try re hang it for them ,see you just proved my point see out fgor a boiler upgrade ,,,,,jeez!!!!

 

[washer]

Oh dear rory, I really wouldnt of bothered replying to such an obvious trolling thread, your right unfortunatley a few bad apples in a company can ruin it for everyone. I know there are many skilled engineers at British Gas but also a few who are just interested in getting on the sales ladder.

Gaspastemania Im sure you must realise that hangin of the wall is an expression and not meant literally, pretty childish comment from you eh?

 

[PlumbBobBob]

trolling? if he didn't mean hanging off the wall he shouldn't have said it!

 

[huddster]

If there is a boiler hanging off wall i would recommend them getting a quote !!!!!!!!!
OMG !!!!!! first thing i would do is make boiler safe and try re hang it for them ,see you just proved my point see out fgor a boiler upgrade ,,,,,jeez!!!!

jeeeeeeez i come across boilers hanging off the wall every day but as long as there is a nice bright yellow flame and i there is only a small gas leak, then i will always leave them on, so what if the customer has mild CO poisoning, as long as the customer is nice and warm with running hot water then im a happy gas engineer.

you do realize when Alan sugar says 'your fired' hes not actually going to set them on fire.........hes just terminating there contact of employment

check my link out, it may be of some use to you

Figure of speech - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Puddle]

check my link out, it may be of some use to you

Figure of speech - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have read through this link and find no reference to boilers hanging off the wall or regs relating to this matter :stooge_curly::smilewinkgrin:


Come on all involved!!this is why we have a be nice policy so we can have a bit of light banter without things developing into the above posts

when I first started out you used to get the ideal concords pulling some walls down

 

[RoryD]

ive been to a few jobs after bg and heard oh that parts obsolete when there on the shelf or you need a power flush for rip off amounts !!

i really cant believe how they get away with it !! rant over

That won't be a BG policy mate. Powereflushing is expensive tho, however it is done correctly and guaranteed for life, won't get that anywhere. Lost count the amount of times it had to be redone after poor quality from plumbers so it does work both ways. Know of 2 guys sacked for the 'no parts' scam.

 

[RoryD]

Oh dear rory, I really wouldnt of bothered replying to such an obvious trolling thread, your right unfortunatley a few bad apples in a company can ruin it for everyone. I know there are many skilled engineers at British Gas but also a few who are just interested in getting on the sales ladder.

Gaspastemania Im sure you must realise that hangin of the wall is an expression and not meant literally, pretty childish comment from you eh?

Thanks mate, must be my age!! So many dynamite breakdown blokes on my patch and of course the A**holes get us all a bad name. They are there we all know that, but my god if I started on what I've found after independents....?? I just get a bit defensive folks. We are expensive but we overwhelmingly give good value. 7.000 engineers will always have a few bad ones in there

 

[gaspastemania]

i wasnt having a go was just banter i am sure if you turned up at a job and a boiler was hanging off the wall you wouldnt just quote a new one ,,,,,,i hope !!!!

 

[SafeGasInstall]

That won't be a BG policy mate. Powereflushing is expensive tho, however it is done correctly and guaranteed for life, won't get that anywhere. Lost count the amount of times it had to be redone after poor quality from plumbers so it does work both ways.

can you please explain to me the above
1-why is it expansive to have PF done
2-how is PF guaranteed for life and will not get that anywhere

just as is not clear to me what you mean ????

 

[villa_tom]

can you please explain to me the above
1-why is it expansive to have PF done
2-how is PF guaranteed for life and will not get that anywhere

just as is not clear to me what you mean ????

BG do guarantee powerflushes for life once they have done one in a property. So if there was a sludge build up again after say 10 years then they would flush it again for free

 

[SafeGasInstall]

For 800 pound I will guarantee this for life , will change the pump and motorised valves and all stats too .....Cheakyyyyyyyyyy aint it

 

[unguided1]

Thanks mate, must be my age!! So many dynamite breakdown blokes on my patch and of course the A**holes get us all a bad name. They are there we all know that, but my god if I started on what I've found after independents....?? I just get a bit defensive folks. We are expensive but we overwhelmingly give good value. 7.000 engineers will always have a few bad ones in there

I agree that some independants are bad and you only have to see some of the pictures posted on the forum to realise this, but the point I am making is the fact the BG as far as I am concerned is a professional company that we should all aspire to be like, with some very good engineers and a relatively good service agreements, Its just a shame that in my eyes they appear to let them selves down time and time again, now whether its the fault of managment or the fault of engineers, who the hell cares as in my experiance it appears to be the old and vunerable that are being ripped off to the point where it is my honest belief that the rogue traders tv program should do a sting operation against BG

 

[RoryD]

can you please explain to me the above
1-why is it expansive to have PF done
2-how is PF guaranteed for life and will not get that anywhere

just as is not clear to me what you mean ????

I have seriously lost count of how many calls I get after independents have PF'd a system, I can't work out as to how they can screw it up. Why is it expensive? Well, being bottom of the Totem pole I can't say except that we rarely get called back (it happens). If Sludge reappears to the extent there is a potential problem, then we will do it again..for free! That's how we guarantee it.
After pre dosing a system it should take at least 8 hours to powerflush a system, one Rad at a time, so it is labour intensive; all blockages are cut out and pipework replaced; Airject is fitted; and a new pump is fitted. All in all a comprehensive job with guarantees dictates the cost. If you take a sample and send it to fernox they will tell you if a flush is necessary.

 

[RoryD]

I agree that some independants are bad and you only have to see some of the pictures posted on the forum to realise this, but the point I am making is the fact the BG as far as I am concerned is a professional company that we should all aspire to be like, with some very good engineers and a relatively good service agreements, Its just a shame that in my eyes they appear to let them selves down time and time again, now whether its the fault of managment or the fault of engineers, who the hell cares as in my experiance it appears to be the old and vunerable that are being ripped off to the point where it is my honest belief that the rogue traders tv program should do a sting operation against BG

LOL! They did!! Little old lady all that was needed on her old boiler was a thermocouple, 3 blokes attended different locations all detected it quickly and rectified , actually without any pitching -shame on them !!- (sarcasm). One bloke actually replaced it and didn't charge her. My understanding is that the BBC wrote and highlighted what a good bloke he was, naturally he was sacked for being altrustic (thats the story as I heard it)...you just can't win eh?

 

[unguided1]

LOL! They did!! Little old lady all that was needed on her old boiler was a thermocouple, 3 blokes attended different locations all detected it quickly and rectified , actually without any pitching -shame on them !!- (sarcasm). One bloke actually replaced it and didn't charge her. My understanding is that the BBC wrote and highlighted what a good bloke he was, naturally he was sacked for being altrustic (thats the story as I heard it)...you just can't win eh?

Well all I can say is a shame they never made the program in south oxfordshire then

 

[tamz]

Not all BG guys are bad. There are 1000's of good ones but also 1000's of bad ones.
BG's biggest problem regarding sales is they pay commision on leads and the fitters have to sell, even if it is only a CO detector.
Given the way things are these days who can blame the poor fitters from trying to condemn and sell (recommend) at every opportunity. Not all will or do but the temptation is there.
As for powerflushes they have to give a lifetime guarantee as they will more than likely be back to it. Treating the symptom without fixing the underlying problem never works.

 

[bert large]

In ten years or so of doing this job I have seen only one system that needed powerflushing, & on that system all the rads were still working, albeit with a fluid resembling engine oil going around inside them.
Yet every time I hear of BG engineers attending a breakdown, whatever it is, I hear of a powerflush being required.

I attended a breakdown a while ago after the customer got suspicious of the BG sales tactics. His Y plan system had suddenly failed completely yet on inspection the BG engineer said he needed an £800 powerflush & went on to explain why. Being a bit mechanically savvy he thought this didn't add up & called me out, to replace his knackered pump !

In my opinion the BG powerflush thing is a huge scam.
Sorry, but once a big company has shareholders & a CEO to satisfy it seems to lose its "customer friendlyness" & becomes totally focussed on profit & cares little where it comes from.

 

[unguided1]

In ten years or so of doing this job I have seen only one system that needed powerflushing, & on that system all the rads were still working, albeit with a fluid resembling engine oil going around inside them.
Yet every time I hear of BG engineers attending a breakdown, whatever it is, I hear of a powerflush being required.

I attended a breakdown a while ago after the customer got suspicious of the BG sales tactics. His Y plan system had suddenly failed completely yet on inspection the BG engineer said he needed an £800 powerflush & went on to explain why. Being a bit mechanically savvy he thought this didn't add up & called me out, to replace his knackered pump !

In my opinion the BG powerflush thing is a huge scam.
Sorry, but once a big company has shareholders & a CEO to satisfy it seems to lose its "customer friendlyness" & becomes totally focussed on profit & cares little where it comes from.

my sentiments exactly and very well said

 

[GrahamM]

In ten years or so of doing this job I have seen only one system that needed powerflushing, & on that system all the rads were still working, albeit with a fluid resembling engine oil going around inside them.
Yet every time I hear of BG engineers attending a breakdown, whatever it is, I hear of a powerflush being required.

I attended a breakdown a while ago after the customer got suspicious of the BG sales tactics. His Y plan system had suddenly failed completely yet on inspection the BG engineer said he needed an £800 powerflush & went on to explain why. Being a bit mechanically savvy he thought this didn't add up & called me out, to replace his knackered pump !

In my opinion the BG powerflush thing is a huge scam.
Sorry, but once a big company has shareholders & a CEO to satisfy it seems to lose its "customer friendlyness" & becomes totally focussed on profit & cares little where it comes from.

Not defending BG here and I have seen plenty of their work to complain about, but that engine oil like water as you put it circulating the system does cause premature wear on pumps etc. and if really bad can mount up to unnecessary repair bills year after year.
If BG change a faulty pump and see it is well gummed up inside they will advise customer a P/F may be required as if they are called back within a short period of time to replace another pump they will not cover it. More often than not the dirty system would be to blame for the premature part failure.
As tamz mentioned there are a lot of good BG engineers out there but they are constantly driven to sell unnecessary product to keep the bosses happy. Most of the guys know you may not need the powerflush and some system cleaner and a hose through the system will normally do, but they do not get any browny for that advice and they certainly do not get management of their backs. If they were to change 2 pumps at a property within a year or so the powers that be would be looking for an explanation why a P/F was not insisted upon after first pump change.
I know a few BG guys and they are constantly complaining that their productivity is down and they have not done enough to reach their targets for the month etc etc. These are good engineers that are constantly under the cosh. Customer service comes down the line after parts cost, sales leads, productivity which is wrong.
The people at the top of the tree are to blame here. Most of the engineers are just trying to get through their day without the Management being on their backs.

 

[Kimou]

I always hear about the complaints also. One customer enquired about their cover and got told they must fit a magnetic filter before she could join up. I said it's good advice that she had from them as it would help preserve her system and they do their utmost to get you sorted when you need them, but at those prices it's a gamble as she's probably never going to call them anyway. She worked out that she'd have to pay about £800 before she was even covered. I told her it's a waste of money as her boiler is only a couple of years old. To call out an engineer to repair a problem isn't going to be anywhere near those prices.

I am not impressed with them. I've been to loads of jobs that told me I was the 3rd or 4th person to attend as a subbie. One BG engineer spent over 2 hours trying to recommission a system with the removable filling key cz he couldn't insert it. I filled and vented it in 20 mins, the client was amazed. Dunno why? It wasn't even troublesome. It is unfair to tar them all with the same brush I think. It is a joke however, the way these companies deny their institutionalised working practices even though they are the worst kept secrets. The parking authorities is the same. Pressure their employees to make money at any cost or tactic. Get 10 and you got the restof the day off.

 

[Barry98]

IMO of BG i have two one is hear http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/gas-safety-register-forum/22623-what-would-you-say.html#post170489 the second is its like driving you have men then sorry political correctness you have good drivers and bad drivers

 

[plumbdoctor]

whats that got to do with flushing a system, most are blocked due to incorrect piping so ur be changing a lot of pumps mate, bg are expensive but you have the cover every patch has there good and bad dont know why people get so against them( and i dont wrk for them so got no reason to back them) my 5 years acs was up few months ago and its the teachers letting the muppets pass that need to be sorted out people who are gas safe cant even do a proper tightness test.......shocking

 

[tamz]

Not so much the teachers but the whole system that is at fault. A paper qual does not make a tradesman.

 

[RoryD]

Not all BG guys are bad. There are 1000's of good ones but also 1000's of bad ones.
BG's biggest problem regarding sales is they pay commision on leads and the fitters have to sell, even if it is only a CO detector.
Given the way things are these days who can blame the poor fitters from trying to condemn and sell (recommend) at every opportunity. Not all will or do but the temptation is there.
As for powerflushes they have to give a lifetime guarantee as they will more than likely be back to it. Treating the symptom without fixing the underlying problem never works.

Best Advice is what it says Tamz, I would expect every house with a gas appliance to have a CO detector, HSE are massive on this. Prevention is always better than cure so, reconfigs, flushes etc are options that customers are not aware of until we go there, that's wrong, lets keep them trouble free. If I was on my own - present economics stopped that!!- I'd do the same. Have to agree that there are those that abuse the system through lack of experience or downright badness, they are everywhere but honestly mate they're a minority

 

[cr0ft]

Hmm. I wouldn't normally get involved with slagging off British Gas or any other company so I'll keep this factual and from experience.

Went to a quote the other day. Customer had just had a condensing boiler (heat only) installed by British Gas. He has low-pressure hot and mains-pressure cold throughout the house. His upstairs shower doesn't work properly due to requiring a minimum pressure not possible with a header tank 1 metre above it

He wanted a combi-boiler but British Gas told him he didn't have a good enough incoming mains for this. I thought I would do a flow rate test and pressure test while I was there. With 2 taps open - 12 litres per minute measured at the kitchen sink. 4.5 bars of pressure measured at the garden tap. Time? Oh yes, 5pm so peak usage time.

Then I realised that no TRVs had been fitted to any radiators, making the whole installation illegal.

I'm about to quote and give my findings with a view to getting him the combi-boiler he should have. Otherwise he is going to have to go for a shower pump as well.

Wasn't very impressed with them from what I have seen but mine may be an isolated incident!

 

[gaspastemania]

Its customers discretion to have TRV'S installed on the system . Had this one before with gas safe and they state its not a prerequisite.

 

[RoryD]

Hmm. I wouldn't normally get involved with slagging off British Gas or any other company so I'll keep this factual and from experience.

Went to a quote the other day. Customer had just had a condensing boiler (heat only) installed by British Gas. He has low-pressure hot and mains-pressure cold throughout the house. His upstairs shower doesn't work properly due to requiring a minimum pressure not possible with a header tank 1 metre above it

He wanted a combi-boiler but British Gas told him he didn't have a good enough incoming mains for this. I thought I would do a flow rate test and pressure test while I was there. With 2 taps open - 12 litres per minute measured at the kitchen sink. 4.5 bars of pressure measured at the garden tap. Time? Oh yes, 5pm so peak usage time.

Then I realised that no TRVs had been fitted to any radiators, making the whole installation illegal.

I'm about to quote and give my findings with a view to getting him the combi-boiler he should have. Otherwise he is going to have to go for a shower pump as well.

Wasn't very impressed with them from what I have seen but mine may be an isolated incident!

Doesn't sound good eh? don't think it's illegal not to have TRV's on an existing system tho

 

[tamz]

The shower wouldn't have worked before the boiler swap so that is down to whoever installed it in the first place. The cust would have been advised to fit trvs at the time (no salesman will miss an opportunity) but if they declined you can't force them.
Instead of fitting a shower pump or new combi, consider a venturi shower.

Rory
There is good and bad in every part of the trade. I personally know a few BG, well SG guys up here, and they are great at what they do. The performance targets don't bother them too much but they are older and wise enough to deal with it.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

"Then I realised that no TRVs had been fitted to any radiators, making the whole installation illegal."

Are you sure you know what youre talking about. Dont slag off others when you are wrong

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

How about getting back on topic: BG and worcester scrappage scheme