Flow restriction from magnaclean/tf1

[on31ll]

Got a customer who loves to read the internet and research everything and he has asked me to fit a magnaclean to his central heating! Simple yes ! But he is saying to me he has read that the magna clean is the best for magnetic but no good for non magnetic crap ! So he wants a mangna clean and after that a tf1 fitted ! Other than flow restrictions any issues ? I have talked and talked to my hearts content about this but he is set on this !

 

[bspareltd]

Great advice Petercj , I will certainly take that on board .You are right not go cheaper but let the market know about the faults and weak points of other products.

 

[petercj]

Great advice Petercj , I will certainly take that on board .You are right not go cheaper but let the market know about the faults and weak points of other products.

That's the way to go imo.

Because of the nature of your product, and the small number of people you need to target, i.e. the buyers within the merchants, I don't see that you need a highly expensive marketing campaign.

But what you do set up needs to be very convincing to win over a highly informed and select group of customers. The main points coming to mind being durability, functionality, ease of fitting, and price, in relation the rest of the field.

MB being top of the tree in relation to durability, but with a confusing marketing message about how it does what it claims to do.

MagnaClean has impressed some people by its pulling power in relation to magnetite, but what about non-metallic debris! Plus, their reputation is tarnished in relation to durability and functionality. If their best known filter has flaws, why would any of their other filters be of better quality?

I don't have any first-hand experience of the Tf1, but it looks to me as if the Fernox filter is your biggest competitor, being something of an all-rounder from a well established and highly respected brand leader in the plumbing market who specialises in cleaning and protective chemicals for heating systems.

So at coal-face level, why would your average plumber, who has walked into a plumber's merchants to buy a Tf1, walk out with one of your filters instead?

A new and unknown product, from a new and unknown manufacturer, up against a company like Fernox - David and Goliath go head-to-head!

The merchants might be persuaded by the quality of your product and the greater profit margin, but will they put much effort into selling it to the plumbers who walk up to their counters?

Will their efforts amount to little more than half a dozen stacked up on the counter with a pile of leaflets alongside?

Fernox hearing of a new kid on the block will no doubt run their promotions thicker and faster than usual.

To hit the sweet-spot with your marketing you need to be able to tempt the middle-man in the chain while he's stood at the merchant's counter waiting for his ball-cock, cylinder, couplings, etc, to appear.

That's where your promotion of a marketing pack comes in - all one man bands need business cards, letter-heads, and other stationary to promote their businesses with. An important element at the best of times, but even more so when business is flagging.

So if you are offering a starter stationary pack with the first ten-unit order, that should get some people looking twice. They may not walk out with ten filters, but if they take one to try, with the offer in mind, you will have started the ball rolling.

Apart from getting your brand name mentioned on their stationary, you will have an immediate customer data base forming when they register their details on-line to take up the offer, providing great opportunities for mailing other offers out on a regular basis.

Negotiating special rates with a printing company at a time like this should be no problem.

I don't think marketing on a shoe-string need be a problem for you, perhaps more relevant is how you will cope with the success of effective marketing, i.e. if a national chain of merchants gives you an order for a 1000 filters, can you cope with that?

Even if your manufacturer can turn the order around in good time, how much credit will they allow you?

What I discovered early on when starting out on my own account was that big businesses run on the credit given to them by small businesses, i.e. what they take from you they will try and sell before they have paid you for the goods.

Which can be a massive challenge to finances when you are operating on a shoe-string.

They literally have you by the short-and-curlies, because as much as you'd like to take a solicitor to them after waiting months for your money, you can't afford to because you need their business.

So my advice is to think ahead of your marketing, and have a plan for coping with the success of it. If you get paid within three months of delivering a big order, you will be doing very well, if it was me, I'd allow for six.

 

[bspareltd]

You ideas are excellent , it seems as if you are a marketing expert ,would you help me launch this product ?
I have never done this before , all I have done is plumbing and gas , since I left school.
My knowledge on marketing is limited.

That's the way to go imo.

Because of the nature of your product, and the small number of people you need to target, i.e. the buyers within the merchants, I don't see that you need a highly expensive marketing campaign.

But what you do set up needs to be very convincing to win over a highly informed and select group of customers. The main points coming to mind being durability, functionality, ease of fitting, and price, in relation the rest of the field.

MB being top of the tree in relation to durability, but with a confusing marketing message about how it does what it claims to do.

MagnaClean has impressed some people by its pulling power in relation to magnetite, but what about non-metallic debris! Plus, their reputation is tarnished in relation to durability and functionality. If their best known filter has flaws, why would any of their other filters be of better quality?

I don't have any first-hand experience of the Tf1, but it looks to me as if the Fernox filter is your biggest competitor, being something of an all-rounder from a well established and highly respected brand leader in the plumbing market who specialises in cleaning and protective chemicals for heating systems.

So at coal-face level, why would your average plumber, who has walked into a plumber's merchants to buy a Tf1, walk out with one of your filters instead?

A new and unknown product, from a new and unknown manufacturer, up against a company like Fernox - David and Goliath go head-to-head!

The merchants might be persuaded by the quality of your product and the greater profit margin, but will they put much effort into selling it to the plumbers who walk up to their counters?

Will their efforts amount to little more than half a dozen stacked up on the counter with a pile of leaflets alongside?

Fernox hearing of a new kid on the block will no doubt run their promotions thicker and faster than usual.

To hit the sweet-spot with your marketing you need to be able to tempt the middle-man in the chain while he's stood at the merchant's counter waiting for his ball-cock, cylinder, couplings, etc, to appear.

That's where your promotion of a marketing pack comes in - all one man bands need business cards, letter-heads, and other stationary to promote their businesses with. An important element at the best of times, but even more so when business is flagging.

So if you are offering a starter stationary pack with the first ten-unit order, that should get some people looking twice. They may not walk out with ten filters, but if they take one to try, with the offer in mind, you will have started the ball rolling.

Apart from getting your brand name mentioned on their stationary, you will have an immediate customer data base forming when they register their details on-line to take up the offer, providing great opportunities for mailing other offers out on a regular basis.

Negotiating special rates with a printing company at a time like this should be no problem.

I don't think marketing on a shoe-string need be a problem for you, perhaps more relevant is how you will cope with the success of effective marketing, i.e. if a national chain of merchants gives you an order for a 1000 filters, can you cope with that?

Even if your manufacturer can turn the order around in good time, how much credit will they allow you?

What I discovered early on when starting out on my own account was that big businesses run on the credit given to them by small businesses, i.e. what they take from you they will try and sell before they have paid you for the goods.

Which can be a massive challenge to finances when you are operating on a shoe-string.

They literally have you by the short-and-curlies, because as much as you'd like to take a solicitor to them after waiting months for your money, you can't afford to because you need their business.

So my advice is to think ahead of your marketing, and have a plan for coping with the success of it. If you get paid within three months of delivering a big order, you will be doing very well, if it was me, I'd allow for six.

 

[Centralheatking]

I have read your very well considered approach to marketing a new plumbing product.

Are you an installer or someone with a sales and marketing base ? If you want to learn
a little more about centralheatking and our product which will be ready late Sept
please reply - we might/will need help.


This thread has been already opened in the 'pub' and I had some really encouraging advice
about centralheatking


My team are really quite old, all of us are over 50, been doin this for a decade and
have some heavy duty connections if anybody wants advice as said b4 we all
have an idea in us is just gettin it out there.

centralheatking

 

[petercj]

You ideas are excellent , it seems as if you are a marketing expert ,would you help me launch this product ?
I have never done this before , all I have done is plumbing and gas , since I left school.
My knowledge on marketing is limited.

Not a marketing expert, just started out in business when I was 21 (which was quite a long time ago) and learned a few things along the way.

Helping you to launch your product would be fascinating, but unfortunately is not something I can take on. But always happy to help if I can on this forum (as long as its ok with board admin of course).

A good Bank Manager, and a good accountant are pretty essential.

There is this too:-

Business in You | There's a business in everyone. What's the business in you?Business in You | There's a business in everyone. What's the business in you?

You can set up a limited company quite cheaply, which will give you some protection if the worst happens.

Something I discovered with a national company that dragged out paying their account held with me for eight months was that as soon as I offered a 5% discount for early payment they were never late paying again. Which just goes to show the way in which accountants think - £sd at every turn.

Have you done any trials on your filter yet?

Maybe you can make contact with say 10 plumbers through this board, and provide them with a filter on the basis that they will fit it and rate it on a set of criteria set by you, while adding some comments of their own.

You can then use the best of the feedback in your marketing, making any modifications first if required.

You could also trial some promotional offers with them, and get feedback on that too.

Most plumbers working on their own account will be doing estimates, so why not have some pro-forma stationary printed that can be used for providing instant estimates? Cover the main plumbing tasks in a list that can be selected by a tick-box, e.g.

Draining down system, refilling, adding inhibitor, bleeding and testing radiators [ ]

Supply and fit hot water cylinder [ ]

Supply and fit electric element and thermostat in cylinder [ ]

Supply and fit cylinder stat [ ]

etc, etc...

With a total price box at the bottom of the Estimate/Invoice

Will need to duplicate on at least two copies.

The pad of Estimate/Invoice sheets could be provided in a executive folder, along with business cards, memo pad, etc. All overprinted with the plumbers business details, and your trade mark.

Presented in a folder like this one - I reckon you should be able to buy them for around a fiver each in bulk:-

Masters Executive Leather Conference Folder W240xD17xH320mm Black Ref 2924: Amazon.co.uk: Office Products

Providing promotions that help people to improve their business has to be good for any supplier. Plus,while marketing their businesses they will also be marketing your brand name too.

At the end of the day, your business is going to depend on the quality of your product, but taking people with you is the right way to go, and recommendation by word of mouth is a powerful marketing tool.

 

[bspareltd]

Set up a limited company in june Trappex ltd,applied for patent pending in april , opened a business account in june .
Sold a house to finance this , I was getting a rent of £550 PER MONTH , which I have lost , so its a do or die situation .
I am playing with 100k , if somebody like wolsley came along and placed a big order and said 60 days payment . I would be snookered to make further filters .
My plan is target the independents , that have up to 10 outlets.

 

[FD Powerflow]

Bspare Peter is offering some great advice, the one thing I would say is get yourself in bed with someone who has the capital and experience to help, I worked for a plastic injection molding company in my late teens (quite a long time ago) and even back then to produce a tool for a mobile phone size piece of equipment ran into the tens of thousands of pounds and that was before a single finished model had been produced.

How about speaking to F&P Wholesale or H&V who distribute across the UK, they would probably jump at the chance to have an own brand filter to compete with the likes of Magnaclean and TF1. Alternatively Calmag are on your doorstep and at least have connections into the market and provided your covered by patents they could produce or at least contribute towards the cost etc.

 

[bspareltd]

I am definitely going to BG and F and P , suggest to them , to put their name on my product

 

[petercj]

Few more ideas here ...

Have you put a business plan together yet?


If you have, hopefully its not like the ones that get mentioned on Dragon’s Den where someone says they expect to be selling 2 million units within 18 months, and then when asked how they intend to achieve their targets they don’t have a clue.

You need a hypothetical working model that takes account of all your costs – that’s down to every last penny. Which means taking account of printing, packaging, storage, delivery costs, any labour costs involved with taking on help, etc, etc. Plus a figure that you can live on, which is likely to be better put by saying a figure you can survive on. Employing people is a big step-change for any business, and allow for taking two steps backwards before you move forward again.

You need to allow for worst-case scenario, i.e. how you will survive if things don’t go as well as hoped for (include an exit strategy), and also a plan for coping with success, i.e. if the ball starts rolling, how are you going to keep up with it.

Closing your eyes and hoping to survive a white-knuckle ride is not the way to go about things, for one thing, the stress you will come under will probably bring you down if the actual business doesn’t collapse. Hopefully, those close to you are up for this adventure you are about to embark on – ‘money ain’t everything’, as the saying goes.

Have you approached any of the national merchant chains?

PTS have in-house brands that are exclusive to them – which doesn’t mean that the product is exclusive to them, just the label stuck on it. A lot of companies do exclusive in-house branding these days. Lidl and Aldi for example, have all sorts of brand names in their stores for tools, gardening equipment, cooking items, etc. etc, most of which can be traced back to them. Most of it having been commissioned by them from Chinese or German companies who stick on whatever brand name suits the retailer.

Market research includes finding out what the possibilities are.

If PTS were to take on your filter under an exclusive in-house brand name, you could be looking at a very bright future.

They will need to trial it anyway, which they will do by releasing it through a select number of branches.

If they like it, and want to run with it, and will give you a substantial order, that will open up doors for financing.

Who knows, maybe they will bear with you on the roll-out, and work to a pace that you can handle. Until you ask, you’re not going to know.

PTS are national local suppliers to BG, so the possibilities are enormous.

In terms of preparation for talking to buyers, make sure you know your competitor’s filters inside out, i.e. what they are made of, what they cost to produce, what their weak points are, what their market share is, etc.

You say you are a plumber, so that will be a big advantage because you know the practical aspects of the product, however, you need to show that you have really done your homework and have researched the other main filters on the market in the greatest of detail, both technically and in terms of their grip on the market.

In an earlier post you mentioned the O ring in MB, and the fact that you have a washer in your filter that is less prone to miss-fitting, However, the joint in MB that is sealed by the O ring is not broken once the unit is fitted. Plus MB do draw attention to the O ring in the fitting instructions, and even include a spare. However, once fitted, the joint doesn’t need disturbing again, so I don’t think the O ring is any kind of major weakness in design.

If I were in your shoes, I would do some research re the metals used in the MB body - the thing is made to survive a nuclear war, but at a price. Brass, and most of the base metals used in the manufacture of the MB body have risen in price quite steeply of late, and will continue to rise in the future – China is hoovering up all of the base metals across the globe, which is helping to raise the price.

So rather than hitting on the O ring in MB, I would be more inclined to point to the ever increasing production cost of MB. There is also the rather confused marketing re the function of MB in relation to what-does-what and why. Then thirdly, there is the magnetic flak jacket that makes the thing look like a prototype that is still in development.

When you get a meeting with the buyers from the national chains, it will be a 15 minute (or so) appointment that could change the rest of your life.

So make absolutely sure that you have prepared for such a meeting; and make sure that you show them that you know your competitors inside out.

You don’t need any fancy sales pitch, you’re a plumber who knows what he is talking about, and if you can show that you have studied the opposition in forensic detail, that will impress.

What I suggest is that you use 3 points of weakness from each of the main competitors to illustrate how your filter is a better buy.

The body on your filter won’t be stronger than the MB, but your production costs should be more stable and predictable.

With the MagnaClean: there’s the connection issues, the body issues, and the limited functionality.

I haven’t seen too much criticism of the Tf1, one plumber on here mentioned issues with the connections, so maybe that’s one point to follow up on.

Have you pulled a Tf1 apart and gone through it with a fine-tooth comb?

Get the technical people at your manufacturer’s to give you the run down on the materials used: any weak points of any kind, including production costs, etc.

Rather than just being critical of the opposition, it will be more persuasive to use their weak point to illustrate the superior qualities of your filter.

Coin the phrase: “We’ve studied the rest to make our filter the best”

Buyers don’t want to sit through a session where someone just bitches about the opposition, they want to hear why they should give your filter a trial.

So cast your net wide and deep when doing your research, and condense your findings into a presentation that will fit into 20 minutes.

Marketing is essentially about communication, and if you can communicate within 20 minutes that you have 100% belief in your product, and that you have drawn on the mistakes of the opposition to improve your filter, then I reckon you will have a very good chance of walking out with a deal.

As a priority, I suggest you get your test/demo rig up and running.

Apart from showing your filter in action, maybe fit the opposition’s filters to it to make comparisons with yours.

If you can get hold of a MagnaClean with a leaking body, put it on your rig and video the thing leaking - you don’t have to mention the name of it, as it will be recognisable to people in the trade. But using the images of it leaking to sell the superior qualities of your filter body will be a powerful selling point.

I don’t think it will take a lot of effort to improve on the rig used by Spirotech.

If it were me, I would get a decent looking boiler that’s been decommissioned due to faults, and cut away part of the front panel, open up the heat exchanger, remove the coil, and replace it with a transparent plastic look-a-like coil (for a Vaillant, the plastic pipe used with vehicle windscreen washers would be do). Put some red LEDs around the burner, and you’re ready to go. Add an Alpha pump (which will give you a range of speeds) to the pipe-work, part of which needs to be transparent, and you will be able to demonstrate on video exactly how easy it is for a heat exchanger to become blocked.

Make your rig look authentic by having a small header-tank (labelled as such) and use it to introduce debris into the system.

Video the debris working its way through the system, and show how it blocks the heat exchanger.

Then run the same routine, but with your filter fitted, hopefully showing how your filter acts to protect the heat exchanger.
Give the bore dimensions of a typical small-bore heat exchanger, and show the size of the debris that will cause a blockage – use a close-up with a pound coin in to show the relative size.

Quote the cost of replacing such a heat exchanger, while comparing such expense to the cost of your filter.

Even when people know how something happens, using visual images can be powerful in selling a product.

Also, keep in mind that your video will be seen by buyers, plumbers, and members of the public - the latter being a good reason not to assume prerequisite knowledge.

It may even be seen by boiler-makers who produce highly vulnerable heat exchangers, and wouldn’t it be nice if it shamed them into putting one of your filters in the box with the boiler?

Make sure your rig really looks the business, and has your brand and logo on it.

Having a selection of such videos on your lap-top will be a powerful force for influencing potential customers.

Apart from the actual messages communicated, the way you have gone about it should impress, and say something about your business acumen and ability to influence people.

[FONT=&amp]I reckon you’re going to be very busy![/FONT]

 

[bspareltd]

I am currently looking for a 3d video animator and negotiating a price with a website designer . I am going to try and put the website out a month before release . What do you think ?
I have seen the video on fernox tf1 , pretty impressive .

 

[doitmyself]

I found your patent application in the Journal!

Did you use the services of a Patent Lawyer/expert to check your product was patentable?

 

[petercj]

Why 3D?

Which Fernox ad do you mean - I didn't think the one with the guy in the black T-shirt showing how easy it is to pull out the magnet was up to much.

I think a well-made rig with a cut-away showing the boiler heat exchanger getting blocked by debris from a header tank would be more help in selling your filter as a protective device.

A Vaillant service engineer told me that the majority of restricted heat exchangers he sees can be linked to debris coming down from the header tank-when the system is drained.

Using graphics to illustrate the point is ok, but I think seeing the actual hardware insitu on a rig brings home the reality of having to pay out £300/£400 to have a heat exchanger replaced.

I haven't seen any other filter manufacturer giving non-metallic debris much coverage - they all seem obsessed with the size of their magnet, and its pulling power - a tad Freudian maybe!!

Something to watch when up-loading stuff to the net is file size - if you throw in all the latest bells and whistles it can mean long download times.

I put a video on You Tube that I made with my old Fuji SD cam, and I was surprised at how well it looked - certainly as good as the Fernox ad.

The beauty of filming it yourself is that you can go back and play around with things whenever the need arises.

Until you put your domain name into a search engine, no one is going to find it unless they enter the domain name directly into their browser, so no worries on that score. Just do the fine tuning before you list it on google, etc.

I put Trappex into the You Tube search box, and only a few videos came up on the game of the same name - so that looks promising.

Must be an exciting time for you? I envy you in a way, but then I couldn't be doing with the hassle these days.

They never show the blood, sweat and tears behind successful businesses on the TV, everything happens within the sweep of a frame change.

 

[bspareltd]

I have bought a domain name , trappex.co.uk about 5 months ago .I have been talking to a 3d video animator and he is saying £300 for a two and a half minutes video . I have chosen 3d because i want the prospective customers to see the inner workings of the filter
This video will be incorporated into the website .
I am planning on releasing the website in october .
You are right everybody has the emphasis on magnet size, not too much on the non magetic debris
If you notice the fernox tf1 and magnaclean has nothing to catch the non magnetic debris .
spirotech mb2 and mb3 does not have a dosing point and doesnt really catch anything.
Do you think when I finish this video , i should put this on you tube straight away or wait until october?

 

[doitmyself]

If you notice the fernox tf1 and magnaclean has nothing to catch the non magnetic debris .
spirotech mb2 and mb3 does not have a dosing point and doesnt really catch anything.

I don't think Adey, Fernox and Spirotech would agree with those assertions. You might find yourself open to litigation, in the same way that Adey was over their claims.

 

[bspareltd]

I am stating my humble opinion on their non magnetic filter section , not because im making my own filter .I have looked at there product ,in detail and there is nothing that actually catches plastic in situ.