shower pump advice needed.

[77rich77]

Have a customer who wants a shower pump fitted in the loft (above airing cupboard) & switch running down into the cupboard.

Hot pipe feed & designated cold feed are in the loft (hot water tank below in airing cupboard) & cold water storage tank in loft space beside where proposed location of pump is. The hot water shower feed runs from the tank up into the loft & runs along side the cold water shower feed & into the bathroom shower mixer {this is because the pipes are passing over the hallway & stairs into the bathroom - i guess the plumber wanted to avoid routing the pipes under the floors the long route round!!}

Does anyone know of any problems fitting the pump alonside the cold tank & above the hot water cylinder?

Cheers...Rich.

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

Sounds like anegative head pump to meWhy does the custard not want the pump in the airing cupboard?

 

[BLOD]

loft isn't the best place for a pump.
Something like an aqalisa visage (pumped version) would work in the set up you describe.

 

[77rich77]

because the airing cupboard is in the master bedroom...and geezer gets up early & missus concerned about noise of the pump!!

negative head pump??? explain...

will pump have problems if the natural head [of cold tank being above it] is removed by placing the pump in the loft alongsie it?

i assume it will pull the hot water from any location?

cheers rich.

 

[stevetheplumber]

you will have to check manufacturers instructions before you buy most recomend it goes on the floor beside the cylinder

 

[Nat]

Hi rich. Was looking to do the same thing recently but decided against it as although you can do it this way you are more likely to get problems with airlocks and air being drawn into pump. To mitigate this your hot feed coming off cylinder should dip down before it goes up into the loft. As long as the pump is located below the level of the water in the cwsc you need a positive head pump. Look at the instructions for the pump you buy and they'll tell you what you can and can't do.

 

[77rich77]

Hi Nat. Cheers for the help.

So i would just run the cold down to the airing cupbard into the pump along with the hot pipe. Then send both up & along the loft space. And do the pipes need to be 22mm from pump to mixer or can they be stepped down to 15mm (as this is the size of the pipe in the loft)?

 

[Nat]

Hi Nat. Cheers for the help.So i would just run the cold down to the airing cupbard into the pump along with the hot pipe. Then send both up & along the loft space. And do the pipes need to be 22mm from pump to mixer or can they be stepped down to 15mm (as this is the size of the pipe in the loft)?

Just pm'd you rich.

 

[Phil]

I once fitted a Samamander pump in the loft BUT the CWSC was raised about 2 ft off the loft floor, I fitted an Essex flange and all pipework had machine bends to aid flow. It works a treat.

The original pump (in same place) leaked and was sucking air through open vent so I re did the pluming when I fitted the new pump.
Customer wanted the pump leaving up there.
The feeds to the plump have to be 22m as far as the flexi's, you can then run the outlets in 15mm, make sure you fit a non return valve (low pressure flap type) on the hot outlet and use full bore isolation valves.

Air vents on the highest points of the outlet pipework, I fit manual type.

 

[Nat]

What's the reason for check valve, Phil? Cheers.

 

[Ian10261]

Hi rich. Was looking to do the same thing recently but decided against it as although you can do it this way you are more likely to get problems with airlocks and air being drawn into pump. To mitigate this your hot feed coming off cylinder should dip down before it goes up into the loft. As long as the pump is located below the level of the water in the cwsc you need a positive head pump. Look at the instructions for the pump you buy and they'll tell you what you can and can't do.

Some shower valves have check valves in the inlets and can require a certain amount of head to overcome the resistance of them. If you dont have the head then the only answer is a negative head pump or less comonley a remote "air starter" which trips the flow switches until theres sufficient flow to keep the shower running.

 

[Phil]

What's the reason for check valve, Phil? Cheers.

It stops the pump pulsing if a hot tap is turned on in the house, although it all depends on how its piped. I always fit them anyway just for an easy life.

 

[mike_s]

Even with a negative head pump it still should be around a foot below the lowest water level the manufacturers say so maybe consider raising the tank aswell. usually advisable to fit automatic air vents in this case too. Speak to Stuart Turner, probably the best pumps and their pump assist team are great, always get back to you.

 

[tackleburger]

Have a customer who wants a shower pump fitted in the loft (above airing cupboard) & switch running down into the cupboard.

Hot pipe feed & designated cold feed are in the loft (hot water tank below in airing cupboard) & cold water storage tank in loft space beside where proposed location of pump is. The hot water shower feed runs from the tank up into the loft & runs along side the cold water shower feed & into the bathroom shower mixer {this is because the pipes are passing over the hallway & stairs into the bathroom - i guess the plumber wanted to avoid routing the pipes under the floors the long route round!!}

Does anyone know of any problems fitting the pump alonside the cold tank & above the hot water cylinder?

Cheers...Rich.

Negative head is the relationship between the cold water tank and the highest point usually the shower head. If the shower head is less than 600mm below the CWT you may have problems regardless of where the pump is located some pumps will work fine with 300mm. The pump has to be below the tank regardless and at least 300mm depending on the manufacturer it cannot be sited alongside the tank even if it is a negative head pump. Check the MIs for installation instructions and follow them to the letter. You will also need to ensure the cold water tank is large enough.

 

[tackleburger]

Hi rich. Was looking to do the same thing recently but decided against it as although you can do it this way you are more likely to get problems with airlocks and air being drawn into pump. To mitigate this your hot feed coming off cylinder should dip down before it goes up into the loft. As long as the pump is located below the level of the water in the cwsc you need a positive head pump. Look at the instructions for the pump you buy and they'll tell you what you can and can't do.

This is only correct if appliances are not less than 300-600mm below the tank e.g the shower head. The pump will also have a minimum distance below the tank.

 

[kay-jay]

you can have a look at installation diagrams on most manufacturers websites, so look around and find one that will fit your proposed installation.

 

[Paulus]

I've had customers asking for pump to go in the loft on may occasions and told them that it needs to be in airing cupboard. As an experiment when I was fitting a new pump to my own shower I put it in the loft, teeing into the cylinder expansion pipe for hot water and dedicated cold feed from tank.


To my surprise the Stuart Turner pump works perfectly and I have had no problems with air.