Real world testing example of Condensing Boiler in older home

[JC22024]

For anyone remotely interested , these are the 2no mutil fuel stoves I have:

A new Stanley Oisin 6kw room heat only, this is lit every evening as soon as we get home from work and heats open plan living room to 22c odd:



(It just replaced a 4kw Hunter stove in same fireplace since 2010)

Then I have another beast (at the time it was biggest in range at 32kw ish IIRC) boiler stove by Yeoman - stove group.



I seldom light this stove but it is a backup in the event the oil goes kaput. I have a full winters worth of firewood to burn if I could be bothered bringing it in and running this one! I really should light this one more.

 

[SJB060685]

Both nice fires. How old is your property? Looks like could be several hundred ?

 

[JC22024]

Both nice fires. How old is your property? Looks like could be several hundred ?

The house was built in 1974, then substantially renovated and extended in the late 80s by my Dad.

So I know the small stove fireplace looks antique but it was all done in Chinese slate in the 80s. I used to hate it but quite like it now if you get the room colour scheme to gell with it.

The other fireplace was just a Plain chimney breast before serving an aga on the kitchen on other side. I done away with the aga then cut open the chimney breast on dining room side. And got an oak beam, chainsawed the back out and rendered it myself internally to look cottagey I suppose. But the rest of the house is modern enough, in the snapshots may look old!

I also like having the ability to heat house with solid fuel. Say oil prices rocket and I'm running out I can switch to wood etc for a few weeks.

 

[JC22024]

For anyone who doesn't have one, I highly, highly recommend a quality efficient multi fuel stove. Even small room heat ones. They belt out heat and make room very comfortable and very easy to run. I found a local supplier who sells top quality coal doubles which produce almost no ash in the stove. Half a dozen bags in boot of car does me 4+ weeks running stove every night without fail and Saturday/ Sundays all day when very cold out.

 

[SJB060685]

I’d love a wood fire in my living room. The problem is due to my disability I live in a ground floor council flat. I would need permission for a wood fire from them and the external flue would look ugly even if they did agree, which is highly unlikely seeing as I have an ASHP . Electric fire would fo but at the price per KWH of electric I’d rather put more clothes on.

 

[JC22024]

I’d love a wood fire in my living room. The problem is due to my disability I live in a ground floor council flat. I would need permission for a wood fire from them and the external flue would look ugly even if they did agree, which is highly unlikely seeing as I have an ASHP . Electric fire would fo but at the price per KWH of electric I’d rather put more clothes on.

Yes the wood Fire is nice to look at also! How do you find the ASHP? I havent heard much good about them here mainly due to very high electricity bills in the dead of winter. (In new houses too) Did you see the recent Skill Builer you tube video on ASHPs?

It powers your underfloor heating? Is there a thermal store or any other heat inputs?

Don't get me wrong I'm sure they are great when set up correctly in a new property. I also did the plans for houses that has other renewables which worked very well. One for example had a ground source heat pump with piping buried in a fieled and a solar grid array down the garden out of sight powering it. Would have cost a furtone to install but basically runs itself

 

[SJB060685]

First off if the Skill Builder video series is who I think it is then do not pay attention to them. Heat Geek have a lot of videos on their website etc that are far more realistic.
My heat pump works don’t get me wrong but my electricity bill in the winter months is astronomical. It’s worth noting my installation was not done by me and to be honest not the best job but it does work. Unfortunately though because of the electricity it uses I would of preferred a mains gas boiler but that isn’t into my block of flats.
I’m 36 and have had chronic rheumatoid arthritis since birth. I’m now at the point where I walk with a walking stick and can’t imagine a wheelchair is too far away. I need warmth in my home and if I didn’t get my warm home discount this winter I would of froze to death.
Heat pumps do work but the system need careful design.

 

[JC22024]

First off if the Skill Builder video series is who I think it is then do not pay attention to them. Heat Geek have a lot of videos on their website etc that are far more realistic.
My heat pump works don’t get me wrong but my electricity bill in the winter months is astronomical. It’s worth noting my installation was not done by me and to be honest not the best job but it does work. Unfortunately though because of the electricity it uses I would of preferred a mains gas boiler but that isn’t into my block of flats.
I’m 36 and have had chronic rheumatoid arthritis since birth. I’m now at the point where I walk with a walking stick and can’t imagine a wheelchair is too far away. I need warmth in my home and if I didn’t get my warm home discount this winter I would of froze to death.
Heat pumps do work but the system need careful design.

Maybe they could add a central LPG tank and meter the flats separately?

Can you get an economy 7 type electricity tariff? I have that on my house. Nowadays its just how the meter charges the rates not actually separate circuits or anything as you likely know anyway.

So I have my hot water immersion auto timed every morning and also delay time my appliances like washing machine tumble dryer and dishwasher.

You might save some by having the ASHP run all night on the 3rd price electricity(?)

Sorry to hear of your arthritis I am 35 and kudos to you getting on and having a passion in your work

 

[SJB060685]

I had a smart meter installed a month ago and I’m under the impression I’m not entitled to any off peak special tariffs.
I had a play with my smart meter hub after writing my last comment. At the time my tv, fridge freezer and living room light were pulling 283 watts of power per second. I turned my room stat up to 23°c to bring on the heat pump. After the minute it takes to bring on the heat pump I checked the power my house was pulling. It had gone from 283 watts to 1.64 kw per second. I’m not sure of the COP of my unit at this outside temperature of 7°c in Taunton. Let’s say it’s 2.1. The unit was pulling an additional ~ 1.3 kw, therefore it would produce roughly 2.6 kw to every 1.3 of electricity drawn. It’s still free energy but that COP reduces as the outside temperature decreases.
These options I’ve found on the smart meter hub will allow me to run some tests in the near future.

 

[JC22024]

I had a smart meter installed a month ago and I’m under the impression I’m not entitled to any off peak special tariffs.
I had a play with my smart meter hub after writing my last comment. At the time my tv, fridge freezer and living room light were pulling 283 watts of power per second. I turned my room stat up to 23°c to bring on the heat pump. After the minute it takes to bring on the heat pump I checked the power my house was pulling. It had gone from 283 watts to 1.64 kw per second. I’m not sure of the COP of my unit at this outside temperature of 7°c in Taunton. Let’s say it’s 2.1. The unit was pulling an additional ~ 1.3 kw, therefore it would produce roughly 2.6 kw to every 1.3 of electricity drawn. It’s still free energy but that COP reduces as the outside temperature decreases.
These options I’ve found on the smart meter hub will allow me to run some tests in the near future.

Well it would be worth checking if your electricity provider if they offer am off peak tarrif.

Have you got LED lighting in your home also? I have been slow on the uptake myself. I had older energy saving lamps in my kitchen then upgraded to LED about a year ago. Only because I work full time and have a part time Architectural practice at home I did a tax return in Jan and noticed I saved £100 in electricity this year from the kitchen LED lights went In.

So a couple weeks back I raided the local electrical wholsaler of LED bulbs and upgraded the whole house.

 

[SJB060685]

No I don’t have LED lighting in my flat. Should definitely make the transition.

 

[John.g]

Haven't had time to tinker much with my heating system since. Just been running it as normal. Racked up 60 hours boiler thermostat call time on the BEM and it's showing an overall saving of 17.5%.

View attachment 73715

This is the average saving it does better on the upstairs than downstairs zone. Perhaps because running the upstairs the boiler is definitely oversized whereas it's just about right on the ground floor.

Still interested to carry out balancing when I get time. And to see if this new condensing boiler with BEM will get me through spring on 900L which would more than halve my regular winters oil bill!

Condensing is paramount to maximising efficiency. All oil boilers on the market today are condensing but for most oil boilers the similarities to their gas cousins stops there. The dew point for kerosene flue gases is a lot lower than mains gas. At ~ 47°c return temperature condensing will start but you are then relying on the secondary heat exchanger efficiency to make sure the water then returning to and through the primary heat exchanger is above dew point else you will get back end rot. There is ways to prevent this but it’s added parts, added cost and a bit of maths to make sure everything runs properly.
Gas boilers have higher dew point temperature but more importantly have the heat exchanger constructed of materials able to withstand lower water temperatures and not rot. The lower the return temperature can be the greater the level of condensing and therefore efficiency. Also gas modulating boilers are even more efficient at part load, whereas with oil you have to meet certain criteria on most boilers.
I know I’ve banged on about it a lot and I do apologise but the Sapphire boiler is an absolutely huge advancement in the oil world. Fully modulating, so can closely match the ever changing load with minimal cycling, excess fuel consumption and burner wear and tear.
For maximum efficiency you want good modulation and low flow temperatures. If a fixed rate burner like most oil burners I would consider a different system design approach to the common S and Y plans.

Worth a read.

Boiler Modulation: What is Boiler Modulation & Boiler Cycling

Discover the benefits of boiler modulation! Learn how boiler modulation optimises energy usage, increases efficiency, and reduces operating costs.

www.heatgeek.com

This trend (from the above) doesn't make a lot of sense though as it doesn't give the total cycle time(s)

 

[JC22024]

No I don’t have LED lighting in my flat. Should definitely make the transition.

I ended up going with warm white LED lights throughout the interior of my house. There are multiple studies out there indicating white LEDs may be detrimental to your health

Light Pollution - Human Health Impacts from LEDs

Light Pollution - Human Health Impacts from LEDs - Designing Buildings - Share your construction industry knowledge. A groundbreaking report released by the American Medical Association (AMA) Council on Science and Public Health affirms known and suspected impacts to human health and the...

www.designingbuildings.co.uk

In any case I also simply prefer warm lights anyway so it was an easy decision. And LEDs give out alot more light typically.

 

[SJB060685]

I ended up going with warm white LED lights throughout the interior of my house. There are multiple studies out there indicating white LEDs may be detrimental to your health

Light Pollution - Human Health Impacts from LEDs

Light Pollution - Human Health Impacts from LEDs - Designing Buildings - Share your construction industry knowledge. A groundbreaking report released by the American Medical Association (AMA) Council on Science and Public Health affirms known and suspected impacts to human health and the...

www.designingbuildings.co.uk

In any case I also simply prefer warm lights anyway so it was an easy decision. And LEDs give out alot more light typically.

So avoid white LED’s?

 

[SJB060685]

Worth a read.

Boiler Modulation: What is Boiler Modulation & Boiler Cycling

Discover the benefits of boiler modulation! Learn how boiler modulation optimises energy usage, increases efficiency, and reduces operating costs.

www.heatgeek.com

This trend (from the above) doesn't make a lot of sense though as it doesn't give the total cycle time(s)
View attachment 74117

Several of us on this forum have done the Hest Geek course . A subject discussed on their website quite a lot.