Discuss Rate of heating in a living room? in the USA Plumbers Advice area at PlumbersForums.net
It's a steel radiator, just in the style of a traditional column rad.Heat up time of 20 minutes seems very long but again if these are cast iron maybe normal, I'm sure some one on here can advise,
Practically speaking my only suggestion is to get hold of a oil filled rad or equivalent, turn off the rad, set the electric heater to whatever power settings are available and that should point you in the right direction. My oil filled rad has three settings, 0.8kw(2730BTU), 1.2kw(4094BTU) and 2kw(6824BTU)
Okay; thanks very much.Yes, any kind of electric heater of known power that you plug in to get a comparison, I can't think of any other way.
Yes, any kind of electric heater of known power that you plug in to get a comparison
Replace that with a decent double glazed unit and you'll probably reduce the heat loss and hence radiator size by a significant amount, typically, about a third.One window (Single glazed): 0.80 m x 1.53 m
So, I've used a 2 kW heater without the fan on so as to make it as similar to the radiator as possible. I placed it at the same room location as the rad.
I've had the heating off in that room so the unheated room had a temperature of 11 C. It took 2.5 hours to get the room temperature up to 20 C.
The heater cut out at 20 C, so presumably the thermostat cut in. I turned the heater off at this point so that I could determine how quickly the room temperature then dropped. It dropped from 20 C to 15 C in 1 hour.
I know there are several pipes connected to the underside of the gas boiler. I could easily take the temperature with the contactless thermometer, however I wouldn't know which is the return pipe, or how this could be determined.With a high flow through it and a high return temp, this radiator will increase return temperature at the boiler substantially. What is the return pipe temperature at the boiler?
I'll look into that then.If your whole system was balanced so each radiator had a 15deg drop you might surprisingly be able to increase boiler flow temp yet lower return temp so increasing overall efficiency.
There are people in the properties next door. I think one particular issue with this room, is that I have removed all the paint from the timber window frame in order to re-paint. It was previously painted closed over decades and this may have helped keep cold air out!I am a bit surprised that with one external wall that is insulated this room temp drops to 11 deg overnight. Is the whole house cold? Are the properties next door empty? Sort that window!
I have done this and set the boiler temperature to 75 C for the heating system. Starting with a room temperature of 12 C, it took 4.5 hours to get up to 21 C.Increase your boiler set point to 75C, this should give you a 2.4 kw rad based on the 50 deg rating, if its "only" producing" 2.0 kw it should still heat up your room in 2.5 hrs. Once you have a rough idea of what these column rads are actually producing then combined with the window mod as suggested, may mean that you can retain this rad with a boiler temp of 60/65C.
The hottest pipe is the flow probably 22mm copper. Next hottest is the return. Often at opposite ends of the boiler. Measure after boiler on for 30 min or so.I know there are several pipes connected to the underside of the gas boiler
Perhaps return temp too high so boiler modulating down?Well, if a 2 kw electric heater got the temp up in 2.5 hours and a "2.4" kw column rad takes 4.5 hours then its pretty obvious that its not producing 2.4 kw for whatever reason, maybe original spec very optimistic as someone stated so what options now?
I could look into the temperature drop issue referred to by gpbeck above. Though even if this is sorted, perhaps it won't make the major improvement which would be required.Well, if a 2 kw electric heater got the temp up in 2.5 hours and a "2.4" kw column rad takes 4.5 hours then its pretty obvious that its not producing 2.4 kw for whatever reason, maybe original spec very optimistic as someone stated so what options now?
The hottest pipe is the flow probably 22mm copper. Next hottest is the return. Often at opposite ends of the boiler. Measure after boiler on for 30 min or so.
As you suggested, the flow and return are at opposite ends of the boiler, and are 22 mm pipes.The hottest pipe is the flow probably 22mm copper. Next hottest is the return. Often at opposite ends of the boiler. Measure after boiler on for 30 min or so.
The blank is on the right side of the rad directly above the lockshield which is also on the right. From what I have read earlier, the flow ideally should be connected to the TRV (especially since the TRV used here is not bi-directional), however as the lockshield valve is consistently hotter than the TRV, my suspicion is that this lockshield is connected to the flow.check if his is this way, ie the blank vent is directly above the flow pipe, also in the picture of his rad they have two circled items in red.
This, from a different (Rad) brochure above...
"Also due to the unique flow diverter built within all Revive column radiators the flow MUST to be on the same side as the permanent blank which is the opposite side to the air vent bleed valve."
No, there were other rads on. Should the others be turned off?Was the boiler just in service to this one rad only with everything else turned off and was it cycling on and off.? those readings should be up around 60/65C?.
There were 3 other rads on (so 4 in total) though they're not on full and they're small rads. Perhaps it would give a better indication if I were to turn off the other rads?How many rads are on that circuit now?, if the boiler is running and even if cycling (which it shouldn't) if more than say 4 rads on then the flow temp should be at the boiler SP whatever that is now, 60C? and the return should be around 10/15C lower.
Yes, the flow/return pipes on the boiler were hot. The temperatures above are the sets of temperatures which I go on these two 22 mm pipes. It appeared that there wasn't one pipe which was consistently warmer than the other (which is strange).No, not at the moment, if the other rads are hot just now then they must be heated from your boiler so the boiler flow and return should be hot?, is the room stat turned up? and programmer calling for CH? otherwise you are measuring the wrong pipes, also the boiler should not be cycling with 4 rads on.
I think you’ve missed the pipes and measured the wall behind.Yes, the flow/return pipes on the boiler were hot. The temperatures above are the sets of temperatures which I go on these two 22 mm pipes. It appeared that there wasn't one pipe which was consistently warmer than the other (which is strange).
I'm not sure what you mean by the room stat? Do you mean the TRV?
By "Programmer calling for CH", I expect this is "central heating", I just flicked the relevant switches on the controller to set the boiler running, and the central heating temperature increases to 60 C or so, so I presume the controller has called for the central heating.
The red dot was directly on the pipes. I'll try again and see what happens.I think you’ve missed the pipes and measured the wall behind.
Was the flow pipe too hot to touch? Should be if over 55 deg. If so your readings are wrong. If not too hot to touch then your boiler is not running.When I attempted this the second time, I had the boiler on for 90 minutes in advance. I found that if I trigger the contactless thermometer about 5/6 times at the one spot, it settles more at one temperature. By doing this I was able to determine that the right hand pipe under the boiler is the flow as it was consistently hotter.
The boiler temperature for the central heating ranged between 58C - 64C.
However, there wasn't any substantial uptick in temperature readings when I took them at various intervals. For the two pipes, I got (in C):
18.3 - 19.6
17.3 - 19.0
19.5 - 22.0
17.9 - 20.9
18.9 - 22.9
16.2 - 21.4
17.6 - 20.0
18.1 - 22.2
18.0 - 21.5
16.3 - 21.6
These are two 22 mm pipes, one to the left and one to the right. There is one other central 22 mm pipe and two other 15 mm pipes to either side of this central pipe - all three of these are cold to touch.
Reply to Rate of heating in a living room? in the USA Plumbers Advice area at PlumbersForums.net