Discuss Rate of heating in a living room? in the USA Plumbers Advice area at PlumbersForums.net
I've just seen a picture of TBOE at the link below, and yes that is ugly.IF you put TBOE (top & bottom opposite ends)in the search box you will find a lot of info, its supposed to be the best way to plump a rad and it might but its certainly the ugliest.
I'm doing that ASAP.This will work fine if you plumb it correctly ie flow into your uni-directional trv.
Re-plumb this rad and balance your system - the report back.
For what it's worth, I've asked the radiator manufacturer and they state that the rad does not require a diverter (or have an in-built one).Would agree with above re different type of rad as there are numerous posts re the (non) performance of "tall" rads, IMHO, all these rads should have a diverter fitted or be plumbed TBOE.
It's 3 bars per column. It appeared to go up the central bar directly above the feed. Then go across the top directly across all at the top, then cascade down heating all at same time. Hopefully, that sounds ok, if not I can repeat and see if I can determine any further detail.So, is it first moving all along the bottom to the return (outlet) straight away and is this return hot first or as soon as the others start heating.
It was set to 60C though in reality it fluctuated up and down between, what was it, 55C and 67C ish as it cycledOne other query, when you took the cycling times tests with four rads and then one, what was the boiler set point temperature?.
This is a big improvement. Need to see if your lounge feels warmer now. Why have you not balanced all the rads in your home?An update: I now have the flow pipe connected into the TRV and the return to the lockshield.
I've ascertained the order in which rads heat up on that floor. After doing, I've turned all the TRVs up full and all the lockshields closed off. Then, with the rads allowed to cool, starting with the first rad on that floor, I've opened up the lockshield as little as possible but which still allows the flow through the rad. I presume this will allow the largest temperature drop possible?
By doing so, in one room I got:
a) 58.7 C at the flow end with a 6 C drop (this is a vertical rad, but not the same brand as the vertical radiator which this thread relates to),
b) 55 C at flow end with a 15 C drop, flat panel rad
b) 55 C at flow end with a 15 C drop, flat panel rad
d) the main radiator in question: 51 C at flow end with 7 C drop
I did notice, when I checked in to look at the boiler that it was no longer switching on/off every 3 minutes any more. Actually, I didn't notice it off so I'm not sure if the cycle time has increased greatly or if wasn't switching off, I'd need to check that. Any time I looked in, it seemed to be holding steady at 62 C without fluctuation.
It didn't seem to be possible to get the 15 C temperature drop. I was being very careful to open the lockshields as little as possible whilst still allowing flow.
If you mean before now, it's because it's not something I'd ever given any thought to. I had heard the term before, but didn't really know what it was exactly until I looked it up on Youtube.Why have you not balanced all the rads in your home?
The lockshield is open as little as possible, just enough that I feel heat starting to arise in the TRV. I'll have to repeat my room warming experiment from a cool room again to discover that.I assume you throttled in the vertical rad lockshield to give that 7C delta?, wonder what it is with no throttling which would tell if reversing the valves does give a higher flow.
Can I just check, so open lockshield fully on the rad in question only, turn boiler up to 70/75 C, then re-balance other rads if required so that their lockshields still only open as little as possible whilst still allowing flow? Once this is done, then turn set boiler temp down to 60 C?The only way IMO to increase your vertical rad to max output is to open the lock shield valve fully and increase the boiler set point to 70/75C, you tried this previously but I think the boiler was cycling, you may then have to re balance the other rads. You could maybe live with slow heat up with the lock shield valve full open but boiler at 60C.
From what I had interpreted from Youtube clips was that the circuit would be on one floor. A different floor would be a different circuit. I could well be wrong, but that's what I had taken from it.I wondered if you had more radiators because you have twice said “on that floor”.
Yes, I've noticed that the air nearer the ceiling is warmer.The exiting air flow is near to the ceiling and tends to sit there. Feel the ceiling directly above.
Newer systems can have separate circuits upstairs do you have 2 thermostats?Either way, they should all have been balanced, starting with the furthest away all thermostats high so all running. Furthest away radiator may well be upstairs.From what I had interpreted from Youtube clips was that the circuit would be on one floor. A different floor would be a different circuit. I could well be wrong, but that's what I had taken from it.
So when I balanced the rads, I balanced the rads on the floor of the rad in question.
Yes, I've noticed that the air nearer the ceiling is warmer.
That's interesting but I don't quite follow it, if you increase the flow to the rad, the return will also increase but the rad output will also increase and the boiler output will decrease by the lost % condensing gain so the boiler will have to fire more both due to the greater rad output and to compensate for the lost condensing effect to maintain the same boiler temperature, so can't see why this should lead to cycling.If you increase the flow in that radiator, I can’t see how your return temperature will be low enough to condense. You will just be going round again, boiler will short cycle. You could try incrementally increasing boiler temperature though if return temps stay below 53 or so. Worcester seem very shy of stating the minimum CH output of that boiler.
I wondered if you had more radiators because you have twice said “on that floor”.
This is a LONG thread but if you recollect the boiler was short cycling UNTIL he wound the radiator down. Formerly it was wide open, a massive open bypass returning a high flow at near flow temp. So boiler couldn’t add enough heat to the water even at the high flows so flamed out.That's interesting but I don't quite follow it, if you increase the flow to the rad, the return will also increase but the rad output will also increase and the boiler output will decrease by the lost % condensing gain so the boiler will have to fire more both due to the greater rad output and to compensate for the lost condensing effect to maintain the same boiler temperature, so can't see why this should lead to cycling.
When the boiler was switching on/off every 3 minutes, there were only the 4 rads on in total. After getting the connections to the main rad switched around, I also switched on some other rads on the other level.the only way that I can see this boiler running continuously is that the upstairs zone was running as well, Mossop can verify that the upstairs stat (if installed) was turned down or one way or the other that these rads were not "on".
The other few rads are still open when I took the last measurements. I could easily take these again with these other few rads closed off again.Thanks, I think one mystery has been cleared up.
Are the other few rads still open? and is/was the boiler still running continuously with both valves fully open on the vertical rad at 75C.?
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