NIBE F205 boiler - please help!

[Misha]

Hi, I live in a one bedroom flat on my own and am only in for around 12 hours today. I've got my NIBE boiler on setting 2 (winter setting). I don't leave anything on standby or lights on etc when they're not needed. I've used 750kwh in 30 days. I'm pretty certain it's the boiler that's the problem. Has anyone installed or used a NIBE F205 before? Any advice on how to reduce electricity consumption? Should I put it on setting 1 during the day, when I'm not in, and put it on setting 2 when I'm in? Should I switch all of my radiator TRV valves off during the day? One thing I'm really confused about is the fact that the homeowner NIBE f205 manual I was given says there is a timer to reduce energy consumption...but the building manager has advised me to keep the temperature constant all day. He insists that the heating will only kick in when it has to.

 

[Misha]

Best thing to do, if you're on your own, is to start a formal complaint with your landlord. Is your landlord an individual or a housing association?

You want to get the Housing Ombudsman Service involved, but they only agree to help you if you've given your landlord a chance to resolve your problem.

Get some advice from Trading Standards or Citizens Advice.

I'm about to get a final decision from the Housing Ombudsman this week, but, it's taken a whole year for them to take action. Plus the year or so it took to get through my housing association's complaints process. So be aware that this is going to take some time.

Going legal is another option. But, without many people sharing the fees, it's not worth it.

Keep complaining, keeping bugging them, and something will eventually be done. Once you go quiet, they've won.

Thanks for your fast response.

The landlord is a property developer. They have many properties and are funded by the HCA.

I can't afford to go legal, otherwise I would. I'm tired of this. I can't afford to stay at this place much longer. No way if i'm receiving huge bills, and it's really, really cold. When I woke up this morning, it was 12 degrees. i've had to turn the heating all the way down because I can't afford to pay bills of over 100 pounds. I just can't.

Good luck - I really hope you win your campaign.

 

[jasonoldy69]

You can follow us on Facebook if you like "Ferriby Rise NIBE Problems".

You may, instead of complaining about cost, complain about its reliability. A number of units have been replaced in our area on the basis that they were unreliable.

If it is unable to maintain a comfortable temperature (20+ degrees c), and your developer has wasted time trying to get it to work for you, they may agree upon a replacement. By law, they are supposed to provide a working heating system. Do they offer to regularly maintain the unit as part of your tenancy?

 

[doitmyself]

It may be a long shot, but I wonder if the rads have been correctly sized for the low flow and return temperatures. At the recommended temperatures of 55C flow & 45C return a radiator will be producing 50% of the advertised output.

 

[Misha]

It may be a long shot, but I wonder if the rads have been correctly sized for the low flow and return temperatures. At the recommended temperatures of 55C flow & 45C return a radiator will be producing 50% of the advertised output.

What information would be needed to work out if the rads have been correctly sized? What exactly are flow and return temperatures? I don't really understand.

 

[Misha]

You can follow us on Facebook if you like "Ferriby Rise NIBE Problems".

You may, instead of complaining about cost, complain about its reliability. A number of units have been replaced in our area on the basis that they were unreliable.

If it is unable to maintain a comfortable temperature (20+ degrees c), and your developer has wasted time trying to get it to work for you, they may agree upon a replacement. By law, they are supposed to provide a working heating system. Do they offer to regularly maintain the unit as part of your tenancy?

As far as the developer is concerned, they don't believe the Nibe unit is functioning incorrectly. As for the maintenance issue, the housing association is going to get back to me. Repairs are dealt with by the property developer, not sure about regular maintenance of the unit.

 

[itspaul]

I have a fair amount of experience of these units and overall they are a good unit if they are used and setup properly they also need servicing annually which includes cleaning the air intakes in the kitchen and bathroom. And cleaning the filter in the unit regularly . Running on setting one just uses the heat pump.in colder weather number 2 brings in the immersion to boost the water temp to help the pump out. On number 3 it uses the immersion only not the heat pump this is an emergency setting if the heat pump has got a problem. The output is about 4 kW and flow temps of around 50 deg so it needs to be on all the time with a set back temp at night this is setup using the nibe controller / programmable stat these are a pain to set up if your not used to them but if you can get it set up properly they are a reliable unit and do the job

 

[Misha]

I have a fair amount of experience of these units and overall they are a good unit if they are used and setup properly they also need servicing annually which includes cleaning the air intakes in the kitchen and bathroom. And cleaning the filter in the unit regularly . Running on setting one just uses the heat pump.in colder weather number 2 brings in the immersion to boost the water temp to help the pump out. On number 3 it uses the immersion only not the heat pump this is an emergency setting if the heat pump has got a problem. The output is about 4 kW and flow temps of around 50 deg so it needs to be on all the time with a set back temp at night this is setup using the nibe controller / programmable stat these are a pain to set up if your not used to them but if you can get it set up properly they are a reliable unit and do the job

thanks for your response. Do the systems actually consume less energy than other heating systems? When I have the thermostat in the hallway set to 21 degrees and have the TRVs open fully on all radiators, the temperature in my lounge/kitchen area and bedroom gets to 16 degrees. Is that normal? And my lounge area radiator only gets hot at the top; it's cold at the bottom. Is that what is meant to happen?

 

[jasonoldy69]

but if you can get it set up properly they are a reliable unit and do the job

At a cost.

 

[doitmyself]

What information would be needed to work out if the rads have been correctly sized? What exactly are flow and return temperatures? I don't really understand.

Ideally, you need to know the heat loss in each room. However, the total heat loss in the flat should be enough You can find this out by using Baxi Whole House Boiler Size Calculator.

Information on typical radiators can be found on page 44 of Stelrad Catalogue

Post the information.

Flow and Return Temperatures

The flow temperature is the temperature of the heated water leaving the boiler and travelling to the radiators.
Heat is extracted from the water by the radiators, so the water temperature leaving the rads and returning to the boiler is lower. This is the return temperature.

The output of a radiator depends on the temperatures of the water entering and leaving the rad. So this is standardised at 75C flow and 65C return. If different temperatures are used a formula is used to calculate the rad output.

 

[itspaul]

It's also important with these systems that the circulating pump is working correctly and the flow rates are not to high

 

[itspaul]

At a cost.

Well cop is 3.3. So a properly designed and maintained system should give out 3.3 kW of heat for ever 1 kW of electricity used according to man data.
http://www.nibe.co.uk/nibedocuments/10591/031977-1.pdf

 

[jasonoldy69]

Ideally, you need to know the heat loss in each room. However, the total heat loss in the flat should be enough You can find this out by using .

Information on typical radiators can be found on page 44 of

Post the information.

Flow and Return Temperatures

The flow temperature is the temperature of the heated water leaving the boiler and travelling to the radiators.
Heat is extracted from the water by the radiators, so the water temperature leaving the rads and returning to the boiler is lower. This is the return temperature.

The output of a radiator depends on the temperatures of the water entering and leaving the rad. So this is standardised at 75C flow and 65C return. If different temperatures are used a formula is used to calculate the rad output.

Bare in mind, this boiler is ventilating the property 24 hours a day, most of which is unrecovered. This is why homes with EAHPs are unable to maintain a decent temperature.

 

[Misha]

Ideally, you need to know the heat loss in each room. However, the total heat loss in the flat should be enough You can find this out by using Baxi Whole House Boiler Size Calculator.

Information on typical radiators can be found on page 44 of Stelrad Catalogue

Post the information.

Flow and Return Temperatures

The flow temperature is the temperature of the heated water leaving the boiler and travelling to the radiators.
Heat is extracted from the water by the radiators, so the water temperature leaving the rads and returning to the boiler is lower. This is the return temperature.

The output of a radiator depends on the temperatures of the water entering and leaving the rad. So this is standardised at 75C flow and 65C return. If different temperatures are used a formula is used to calculate the rad output.

Great - thank you so much for the info and the links.

 

[Misha]

It's also important with these systems that the circulating pump is working correctly and the flow rates are not to high

How will I know if the circulating pump is working correctly?

One of my radiators (the largest one) gets hot at the top but stays cold at the bottom? I've been told that is because the water flows through a pipe at the top of the radiator and then flows out of the radiator at the bottom. Does that sound right to you? Also, something I noticed today. The temperature gauge on the F205 said the temperature was 50 degrees. The TRVs on all of the radiators (one rad doesn't have a TRV) were completely closed at that point and the thermostat was on 14 degrees. I didn't use any hot water, and I opened all of the TRVs. The temperature on the gauge went down to 40 degrees in about 10 minutes. Should that happen?

 

[doitmyself]

Great - thank you so much for the info and the links.

So where are the results of your research?

 

[doitmyself]

One of my radiators (the largest one) gets hot at the top but stays cold at the bottom? I've been told that is because the water flows through a pipe at the top of the radiator and then flows out of the radiator at the bottom. Does that sound right to you?

Some systems do have one pipe connected to the top and the other to the bottom, but this is move prevalent on the continent. In the UK it is normal to have both pipes connected to the bottom.

However, heat rises, so the top of a rad will always be warmer than the bottom.

The temperature gauge on the F205 said the temperature was 50 degrees. The TRVs on all of the radiators (one rad doesn't have a TRV) were completely closed at that point and the thermostat was on 14 degrees. I didn't use any hot water, and I opened all of the TRVs. The temperature on the gauge went down to 40 degrees in about 10 minutes. Should that happen?

If all TRVs closed no heat is being removed from the water by those rads, which leaves one rad to give off any heat. So the water temperature (return) will not drop very far. As soon as tyou open the TRVs the rads give off heat, and the return temperature drops. The boiler then heats the water up.

Did the temperature stay constant at 40 or did it rise?

 

[jasonoldy69]

Well cop is 3.3. So a properly designed and maintained system should give out 3.3 kW of heat for ever 1 kW of electricity used according to man data.

In theory, yes. In practice, it's nowhere near COP 3. It's closer to 1.5 in most cases.

Don't forget, this a Swedish product installed in standard British housing. Swedish homes are 1000% more air tight. The fact they've needlessly punched "fresh air inlets" in these homes, reduces air tightness further.

If you called NIBE UK today, and asked them to confirm the COP value, I guarantee you won't get a straight answer.

 

[jasonoldy69]

NIBE EAHPs will be featuring on BBC again, this year.

I may be able to post more news regarding current and future NIBE installations, in the coming weeks, hopefully to the delight of thousands of unhappy users.

 

[Misha]

So where are the results of your research?

Sorry about the delay. I haven't calculated anything yet as I have no idea what size the property is. When someone visits me, we'll get a tape measure out to measure everything. I had a look at the radiator catalogue, but I couldn't find a radiator like mine.

 

[Misha]

Some systems do have one pipe connected to the top and the other to the bottom, but this is move prevalent on the continent. In the UK it is normal to have both pipes connected to the bottom.

However, heat rises, so the top of a rad will always be warmer than the bottom.


If all TRVs closed no heat is being removed from the water by those rads, which leaves one rad to give off any heat. So the water temperature (return) will not drop very far. As soon as tyou open the TRVs the rads give off heat, and the return temperature drops. The boiler then heats the water up.

Did the temperature stay constant at 40 or did it rise?

The temperature did rise eventually. i'm confused; I didn't think the water for the rads came from the hot water cylinder. I thought it was only water for taps that came from the hot water cylinder...

 

[jasonoldy69]

The temperature did rise eventually. i'm confused; I didn't think the water for the rads came from the hot water cylinder. I thought it was only water for taps that came from the hot water cylinder...

The unit has a cylinder, with another hot water cylinder wrapped round it (double-jacket).

If I'm right in remembering, the inner cylinder feeds water for the radiators, the outer one is your domestic hot water store.

 

[Unregistered]

The unit has a cylinder, with another hot water cylinder wrapped round it (double-jacket).

If I'm right in remembering, the inner cylinder feeds water for the radiators, the outer one is your domestic hot water store.

Ohhh. So which cylinder does the gauge relate to?

 

[jasonoldy69]

Ohhh. So which cylinder does the gauge relate to?

I guess the gauge on the f205 is domestic hot water.

P.S. I'm sorry about the private messaging. This rotten site only lets you store 1-2 messages at a time.

 

[Misha]

I guess the gauge on the f205 is domestic hot water.

P.S. I'm sorry about the private messaging. This rotten site only lets you store 1-2 messages at a time.

No worries about the private messaging.

I thought it would be measuring domestic hot water. That's why I got so confused when the temp dropped as soon as I turned the rads on.