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Stevemarch1969
Apologies, reposted in central heating forum.
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New radiator in loft causing problems
Discuss New radiator in loft causing problems in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
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You have let the air out have you ?
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Stevemarch1969
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Stevemarch1969
its weird because flow is from ch side of 3 port so assumed correct.
The only thing "wrong" I suppose is that the loft rad return is teed into the cylinder return.
Maybe as someone else has said the only way to resolve is to make the loft rad return enter the ch return system somehow and not the cylinder retUrn which will prove difficult.
i may just get the NRV removed and go back to how it was. Not ideal but at least the rad worked (even if it seemed to be filled from the retUrn of cylinder and the HW was on constantly as it was filling the rads as well as the cylinder!). But if I use the Trv in the loft effectively hopefully this will stop.
steve
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Post photos
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Stevemarch1969
Flow pipe is upper one teed from ch side of 3 port valve.this goes to lock shield on right of rad.
return pipe is lower pipe with NRV fitted and teed into return pipe which comes from the HW cylinder to the right. This goes to Trv on left of rad.
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Post few more photos to the right hand side whet 3 port and cylinder is
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It seems simple enough. The plumber has made a stupid mistake, if I am picturing it right.
As you have said, the return to the cylinder is where he went wrong. That shouldn't be joined into for the rad unless you also joined the flow to the hot water flow & at least the rad would work when hot water only on & not effect the other rads.
What is happening at moment when only hot water on, is the flow is going through cylinder coil & then out through the return pipe the plumber has wrongly connected - then through the rad & into the flow he connected to the main rad circuit.
Simple! And it really just is the usual mistake - 2 connections to the main return circuit instead of just one!
As you have said, the return to the cylinder is where he went wrong. That shouldn't be joined into for the rad unless you also joined the flow to the hot water flow & at least the rad would work when hot water only on & not effect the other rads.
What is happening at moment when only hot water on, is the flow is going through cylinder coil & then out through the return pipe the plumber has wrongly connected - then through the rad & into the flow he connected to the main rad circuit.
Simple! And it really just is the usual mistake - 2 connections to the main return circuit instead of just one!
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Stevemarch1969
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Stevemarch1969
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Stevemarch1969
Thanks for reply.
that makes perfect sense the only weird thing is the flow pipe to the loft rad does not get hot when water on, return does but is prevented from entering rad due to NRV fitted. Something is happening though cause if Trv switched off on loft rad, other rads do not get warm when HW only on. Trv on, other rads get hot.
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jase158
that pipe to right of pump, did plumber fit it? the one with white handle on it!!
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Stevemarch1969
No that's always been there.
he only teed into ch flow and HW cylinder return.
he only teed into ch flow and HW cylinder return.
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Think it is below the pump if the picture was right way up. Don't think that should be joined in there, if it is before the 3port. I am confused!
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Lock shield as a bypass from the look of it......an attempt at one atleast
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jase158
yeah it shouldn't, 3 port valves automatically close to h. water. Heating should have bypass or 1 rad with no trv on it. please close it by turning clockwise. then try it. make sure 1 rad either doesn't have trv or TRV head is taken off if they all have trvs!!
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Stevemarch1969
pump is at top so pic needs rotating one turn quarter clockwise to be right way up.
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- 10,028
Kind of says it all! Joining to CH flow & then cylinder return won't work IMO.
Get a heating engineer to repipe the rad.
Either just use the cylinder circuit, so new rad will only work when hot water on sadly,
Or have the new radiators return pipe joined into the returns of the rad circuit somewhere if this is feasible, but NOT into the main circuit!
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Stevemarch1969
Towel radiator in bathroom has no Trv all other rads have TRV.
So are you staying tighten the white lock shield in the pic?
So are you staying tighten the white lock shield in the pic?
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jase158
Its a lot easier to connect into the hw return though as that's the only returns in loft, saves breaking walls etc. non return should of solved this though!! The issue is the bypass, bet it was blocked before and he moved it by cutting and soldering new fitting and caused back flow. Need to shut valve and replace with automatic bypass valve!!
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None of what you have shown or have described looks or sounds right....i don't think the installer in the first place had a great deal of an idea about what they were doing tbh!!
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jase158
yes, if this doesn't work then definetly going through rad, is the top of the radiator below the bottom of the f and e tank?
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It's not a lockshield valve, I think. It looks like a wheel head Peglers terrier rad valve & as 1King55 has said, maybe a bypass.
I wouldn't turn it off, - get a heating guy to fix everything.
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Stevemarch1969
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jase158
And the difference between a lockshield valve and wheelhead valve are? definetly not a bypass valve.
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Same valve, except a lockshield valve has a lockshield head
& a wheel head valve has a wheel head! :smile:
And yes, it definitely is not a proper bypass valve, but possibly used as a permanently bypassing valve & therefore wrong.
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Stevemarch1969
I have tightened the valve with the white knob and put heating only on.
This valve sits on top of the tee the plumber has fitted into the cylinder return.
I assume this is similar to the suggestion earlier of a flow from before the 3 port so if this is open as it was surely its a flow?
This valve sits on top of the tee the plumber has fitted into the cylinder return.
I assume this is similar to the suggestion earlier of a flow from before the 3 port so if this is open as it was surely its a flow?
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jase158
I was being sarcastic, they are the same thing and so your post no. 52 makes no sense. There is no need for it as 3 port valves close to hot water so always have a circuit, there is no completely shut on 3 port valves. so even if it is a bypass valve it isn't needed!
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jase158
you want hot water on only to see if rads get hot when hot water only is on, don't you?
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jase158
exactly, this is the issue, surprising that you didn't have this problem before though!!
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Stevemarch1969
Yes just trying that now.
with ch on only all ok but no heat to loft rad. Part of pipe warm where first teed in but doesn't travel to the rad.
cylinder return is now cool since white valve shut. Was red hot all the time before..
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