Must you be Gas Safe Registered to do Gas installation? Read HSE's response.

[Reg Man]

I don't think there is to much wrong with the current legislation. If you put a blanket "you must be registered and competent to carry out gas work" it would be unfair to those gas fitters who are employed by a registered business during the week and are registered operatives, who would then not be legally able to fit a boiler in their own home. "benchmark" is not a legal requirement, its an industry wish, to encourage good practice.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Please see following, an email which I received from the HSE. Colleagues, we need to make a tough stance in demanding for reassessment of these farcical, non coherent and ineffective regulations. On one hand they say we need NOT be GSRed to do works for friends and family on the other hand they require us to complete the benchmark with full details of GSRed installer!! Please help us stand against these daft rules, sign our petition, let’s take this all the way. Reform Gas Safety in UK Petition

Hi Reza,

Sorry I wasn't able to get back to you last night, but you caught me when I was just on my way out of the office.

In terms of the current definition of competence this is captured in COP 20 (see http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/cop20.pdf) - COP20 will be withdrawn as part of the current ACOP review but will be replaced by industry led guidance.

The majority of this definition has been transferred into the new revised L56 (see para 58 of the revised L56) - so it hasn't really changed as a result of the ACOP review.

As we discussed yesterday - although everyone who carries out gas work needs to be competent (see the new para 57 of the revised L56), only those who are a gas engineering business need to be registered with Gas Safe Register (see paragraphs 65 & 66 of the new revised L56).

This position has not changed as a result of the ACOP review. The underlying legislation (the Gas Safety Installation and Use Regulations) only require gas engineering businesses (which include the self-employed and sole traders) to be competent AND registered (see regulation 3(3)). Those who are not acting as gas engineering businesses (for example DIY, favours fro friends etc) are only required to be competent. They do not need to be GSR registered.

I know that you and your group find this position incongruous - however the legislation (Gas Safety Installation and Use Regulations) are not subject to this review and are not being changed. The Approved Code of Practice and it associated guidance cannot go beyond the scope of the legislation itself, and so we cannot insist that engineers carrying out DIY/favours for friends should be registered as well as competent.

I hope this has helped to explain our current position but if you need anything else then please let me know.

the only competent person in the regs is the one that is a gas safe register and has past acs

 

[Reza]

I don't think there is to much wrong with the current legislation. If you put a blanket "you must be registered and competent to carry out gas work" it would be unfair to those gas fitters who are employed by a registered business during the week and are registered operatives, who would then not be legally able to fit a boiler in their own home. "benchmark" is not a legal requirement, its an industry wish, to encourage good practice.

People who want to do this as an extra activity to their employment should get a registration card of their own and also a cover for PL insurance. Oh and declare extra earnings to HMRC for separate contribution, ie income tax and NI.

 

[Reza]

Benchmark is not a legal requirement but to register the boiler with the authorities is. How is this possible with no Gas Safe Registration number! How would you report a RIDDOR if and when needed to!

 

[Reza]

the only competent person in the regs is the one that is a gas safe register and has past acs

That's how it should be but isn't!

 

[Reg Man]

Benchmark is not a legal requirement but to register the boiler with the authorities is. How is this possible with no Gas Safe Registration number! How would you report a RIDDOR if and when needed to!

You go directly to your local authority and register the work for building regulations. Your not going to be RIDDOR reporting something in your own house and because its a competent gas fitter doing his own gas work he has no requirement because its not at his place of work.

 

[Reza]

You go directly to your local authority and register the work for building regulations. Your not going to be RIDDOR reporting something in your own house and because its a competent gas fitter doing his own gas work he has no requirement because its not at his place of work.

But this is not just limited to own. It also applies to friends and family and let's face it, everyone could be classed as friends. So far you've stated that commissioning record is not a legal requirement and that you don't have to report dangerous Gas occurrence for own. I am interested to know how you'd handle this situation! Suppose you fit a boiler in a "mate's" house then you discover signs of spillage in the front room against which you'd have to ID the appliance. How would you go about doing this process without having the one ref that ties everything together, i.e your Gas Safe Registration number!

 

[Reg Man]

But this is not just limited to own. It also applies to friends and family and let's face it, everyone could be classed as friends. So far you've stated that commissioning record is not a legal requirement and that you don't have to report dangerous Gas occurrence for own. I am interested to know how you'd handle this situation! Suppose you fit a boiler in a "mate's" house then you discover signs of spillage in the front room against which you'd have to ID the appliance. How would you go about doing this process without having the one ref that ties everything together, i.e your Gas Safe Registration number!

Your not at work so RIDDOR don't apply. Your only at work when employed or self employed. Thiis is a DIY job carried out by a competent person.

 

[Reza]

Wow, the nation will be safe in your hands won't they!!!

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Your not at work so RIDDOR don't apply. Your only at work when employed or self employed. Thiis is a DIY job carried out by a competent person.

such a thing does not exist !!! not in my training centre when i did my acs ! every person that does gas must be competent
and then competent person is the one that has done acs and is gsr only , if person is gsr under company he/she then does not have the right to do any other gas work does not matter who for if its not work that the business is employed to do

 

[SafeGasInstall]

But this is not just limited to own. It also applies to friends and family and let's face it, everyone could be classed as friends. So far you've stated that commissioning record is not a legal requirement and that you don't have to report dangerous Gas occurrence for own. I am interested to know how you'd handle this situation! Suppose you fit a boiler in a "mate's" house then you discover signs of spillage in the front room against which you'd have to ID the appliance. How would you go about doing this process without having the one ref that ties everything together, i.e your Gas Safe Registration number!

this is not recognised situation as work for a friend without gain payment ! payment or not payment you were the last man there therefore if you have been employed to do work on that appliance even safety check then its your responsibility if your mates family die , dont matter who has fitted it

 

[Reza]

this is not recognised situation as work for a friend without gain payment ! payment or not payment you were the last man there therefore if you have been employed to do work on that appliance even safety check then its your responsibility if your mates family die , dont matter who has fitted it

It seems that some people are perfectly happy to do work at mate's house and when they come across a dangerous situation, to avoid following procedure as it's a mate house so it wouldn't matter. No sir, the better way to conduct as a professional is to obtain a consent from the employer, then apply for registration and pay your dues like ever other earner. That way, when there is an accident or a case of negligence, they too can be traced and be prepared to stand and dance like the rest of us have to.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

sure everyone will do the walk to the prison no matter has he been paid for or not , should a fatality happen !

 

[Masood]

such a thing does not exist !!! not in my training centre when i did my acs ! every person that does gas must be competent
and then competent person is the one that has done acs and is gsr only

Sorry Stan, but you've been told wrong. If you read the current ACOPS document (L56), the definition of competency has no requirement for formal training, nor registration. This is not a good thing, but it most definitely does exist. The revisions in the consultation documents go some way towards tightening this up, but still don't list ACS or GSR as mandatory requirements.

 

[Reza]

Sorry Stan, but you've been told wrong. If you read the current ACOPS document (L56), the definition of competency has no requirement for formal training, nor registration. This is not a good thing, but it most definitely does exist. The revisions in the consultation documents go some way towards tightening this up, but still don't list ACS or GSR as mandatory requirements.

The definition of competency is given in COP20 not the L56. Secondly the initial and revised version both are flawed no matter how they present the point across. Registering with Gas Safe Register must be the only way to work with Gas as an engineer. It only cost a minimal amount to register as a second employment anyway, those who don't and give the excuse of the regulation, have something to hide.