Flow restriction from magnaclean/tf1

[on31ll]

Got a customer who loves to read the internet and research everything and he has asked me to fit a magnaclean to his central heating! Simple yes ! But he is saying to me he has read that the magna clean is the best for magnetic but no good for non magnetic crap ! So he wants a mangna clean and after that a tf1 fitted ! Other than flow restrictions any issues ? I have talked and talked to my hearts content about this but he is set on this !

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

I used to work for a company that contracted out to baxi ,that carried out repairs . We worked all over yorkshire carrying out baxi boiler repairs that were under warranty.:sleeping:

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its all i fit combi wise either the duotec 1 or potterton gold wont touch the new ga boilers though or there solo HE good to see a service engineer has designed this filter so you know the issues us guys face,but we want it all cheap,reliable,does what it should do you have a tough audience to convince but i think your filters on to a winner i like the look of it,just remember when your minted that us guys want good service back up in the event of a problem mr adey was a gas engineer but his company's lack of interest in us guys is the main reason i am looking at alternatives

 

[bspareltd]

My purpose in business is not just have a good product ,but a strong customer services back up , that i can oversee.
I cannot comment on competitors .
I have had a lot of interest from 8 different merchants, one of the merchants is big , when I say big they are big .
I cant fulfill there needs because they have a outlet in every town .
I just dont want to jump in at the deep end and find I cant cope, doesn't make business sense.
I may be a little stickleback in big pond , I'd like to grow steadily .

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

My purpose in business is not just have a good product ,but a strong customer services back up , that i can oversee.
I cannot comment on competitors .
I have had a lot of interest from 8 different merchants, one of the merchants is big , when I say big they are big .
I cant fulfill there needs because they have a outlet in every town .
I just dont want to jump in at the deep end and find I cant cope, doesn't make business sense.
I may be a little stickleback in big pond , I'd like to grow steadily .

well you got my vote,i will try your filter,see what it stops after that it will be specified on every fit

 

[on31ll]

i like your filter and i like your plan. unlike some people you havent seen big companys and ran for the cash youve stuck by and said small merchants first build slowly. i like that !

 

[bspareltd]

As a little boy my father used to say to me , slow and steady and win the race .
I took that on board and stuck to that .

i like your filter and i like your plan. unlike some people you havent seen big companys and ran for the cash youve stuck by and said small merchants first build slowly. i like that !

 

[M.Joshi]

i am launching a new filter on the 1st of november,this filter will capture magnetic and non-magnetic particles.You can see this on our holding page until the website is finished off .
www.trappex.co.uk ,any questions contact me on [email protected].
10000 gauss magnet , 5 dirt separators ,service without dismantling ,dosing point via a funnel.
A animated video will be launched in the next few weeks .

Glad to see that you have openly published the gauss strength of your magnet - although is it 10000 or 9500 as per the website?

Some time back, I tried to find out what gauss strength magnets other magnetic system filters use - the companies were not forthcoming with this information!

The killer on price is the magnet , the rare neodymuim magnet is very expensive but even though we are manufacturing in the uk , we will be very competitive .
If you go onto the website holding page and email your details , we will send a sample out in mid november

Neodymium magnets are good as they maintain their strength for a longer period of time but as you say are very expensive! For this reason, I believe some companies are reducing the size of their magnets to lower manufacturing costs (Magnaclean & Fernox).

 

[bspareltd]

Magnet size is 9500 gauss as stated on the website and on the video on you tube .
The magnet is the most costly part of the filter , I know fernox say there is 9000 gauss , but not so sure on magnaclean .
We will keep it at 9500 gauss , not reduce the gauss size to cut costs.

 

[Masood]

I'm liking what I'm reading. I normally spec Spirotrap MB, but will be very interested in seeing yours. I wish you the very best of luck, it's nice to see someone determined to keep quality high rather than slash costs in search of a bigger profit margin...

 

[bspareltd]

I believe in quality rather than quantity , also listen to the customers and have a strong customer services that dont fob you off .

 

[FD Powerflow]

Id agree with the Magnaclean product quality reduction, first it was the valves, now its the magnet seems to be about a 3rd of the size, yet claim more magnetic debris removal! Can't see that they have changed anything with the Fernox one as you can actually see the magnets but I guess that doesn't mean a whole lot. Good luck and I hope you get stuck in. I'd probably try the independant network groups like Cemco and NBG, they deal with all procurement deals and can probably give you the orders to cover your set up costs.

 

[bspareltd]

You are absolutely right, i dare not even think of speaking to the retail buyers of the big companies as they firstly might give me an order that i cant fulfill. I might have to go to the bank for more money , finance is tight .
I have placed a 1/4 page ad in the december issue in the registered gas engineer magazine and the installer magazine ,cost £625 +vat each magazine .Mind you I managed to get an editorial with the installer magazine .
Also a ad in the december pham magazine slightly cheaper ,cost nearly £2000 altogether ,i need deep pockets .
Approached my manufacture in nottingham asked them if i got a large order would they extend my 30 day credit , they said no .
Got a meeting with the bank manager next week, lets hope he doesnt show me the door.

Id agree with the Magnaclean product quality reduction, first it was the valves, now its the magnet seems to be about a 3rd of the size, yet claim more magnetic debris removal! Can't see that they have changed anything with the Fernox one as you can actually see the magnets but I guess that doesn't mean a whole lot. Good luck and I hope you get stuck in. I'd probably try the independant network groups like Cemco and NBG, they deal with all procurement deals and can probably give you the orders to cover your set up costs.

 

[julesverne]

havent read the whole thread but liking what im reading hope it all goes well.

 

[vern]

Id agree with the Magnaclean product quality reduction, first it was the valves, now its the magnet seems to be about a 3rd of the size, yet claim more magnetic debris removal! Can't see that they have changed anything with the Fernox one as you can actually see the magnets but I guess that doesn't mean a whole lot. Good luck and I hope you get stuck in. I'd probably try the independant network groups like Cemco and NBG, they deal with all procurement deals and can probably give you the orders to cover your set up costs.

Well it just got more complicated just seen Magnaclean pro 2, new inline valves, drain valve etc!! take a look @ PHPI 4 or 5 new filters launched!!! goodluck BSltd

 

[bspareltd]

Seen magnacleans pro 2 ,can you fit that horizontally ?
Does it capture non magnetic debris ?
I asked these two questions when i went to the phex show in manchester to the magnaclean rep and the answer was , we dont know anything about the filter ,all we know its being launched in january.
There are a lot of filters that are coming to the market ,salus is launching a filter in january and calmag , I think everyone is jumping on the band wagon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am also in the process of designing a inline filter hope fully launch will be soon with 9500 gauss magnet and serviced without dissassembly
It all blends down to price , in the next 12 months the price will be slashed due to competition.

Well it just got more complicated just seen Magnaclean pro 2, new inline valves, drain valve etc!! take a look @ PHPI 4 or 5 new filters launched!!! goodluck BSltd

 

[vern]

Seen magnacleans pro 2 ,can you fit that horizontally ?
Does it capture non magnetic debris ?
I asked these two questions when i went to the phex show in manchester to the magnaclean rep and the answer was , we dont know anything about the filter ,all we know its being launched in january.
There are a lot of filters that are coming to the market ,salus is launching a filter in january and calmag , I think everyone is jumping on the band wagon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am also in the process of designing a inline filter hope fully launch will be soon with 9500 gauss magnet and serviced without dissassembly
It all blends down to price , in the next 12 months the price will be slashed due to competition.

Just seen full page ad in PHPI thats all, does not look like it can be mouted horizontally to me??? doohhh!!!!the non mag debris caputure via existing sheath @ the bottom and and a new one at the top?? dont rate the existing MC for non mag debris anyhow....nowt on thier website either??
Goodluck pal hope it goes well i can see a price war looming..........

 

[bspareltd]

I think vern everybody has tackled the magnetic particles but i think filter manufacturers have to have the emphasis on two key points , capturing non magnetic particles and servicing without disassembly.Which I have acheived , I am on with my second inline filter design .
i have my opinion on price war , if you have a unique selling point you dont have to reduce prices but if your product is the same as others then it becomes a price war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ray Stafford]

i have my opinion on price war , if you have a unique selling point you dont have to reduce prices but if your product is the same as others then it becomes a price war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi bspareltd

A word of caution there. Branding, marketing and distribution all matter. I have lost count of the smart ideas and clever featured products that have crossed my desk and are now lost in obscurity. It ought to be the case that the best product wins, but that isn't the way the market operates.

If you put your product up against Magnaclean and TF1 at similar prices, even with a full on marketing campaign, you will struggle to get it off the ground. They have the advantage of having recovered their design and tooling costs, and so have the luxury of operating on marginal manufacturing cost if they so choose.

Most buyers will go with the brand names, and if they have a price war between themselves (and Sentinel) you are in danger of being crushed between them.

Sorry to sound negative, but the market is pitiless, particularly when two big players are at war.

 

[vern]

I think vern everybody has tackled the magnetic particles but i think filter manufacturers have to have the emphasis on two key points , capturing non magnetic particles and servicing without disassembly!!!!

If you can deliver this I am in!

 

[bspareltd]

You are absolutely right about marketing against the big players , fernox and magnaclean have the firm footholding in the market.
I agree with a new comer , i have to think about marketing on a budget , unbranded product .A lot fo retail buyers will not entertain a company with one product , a uphill struggle:angry_smile:

 

[Anon84]

It'll be interesting to see how innovative companies can be with more players coming to the field.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Fernox now have their TF1 compact version out.

 

[Centralheatking]

Hi bspareltd

A word of caution there. Branding, marketing and distribution all matter. I have lost count of the smart ideas and clever featured products that have crossed my desk and are now lost in obscurity. It ought to be the case that the best product wins, but that isn't the way the market operates.

If you put your product up against Magnaclean and TF1 at similar prices, even with a full on marketing campaign, you will struggle to get it off the ground. They have the advantage of having recovered their design and tooling costs, and so have the luxury of operating on marginal manufacturing cost if they so choose.

Most buyers will go with the brand names, and if they have a price war between themselves (and Sentinel) you are in danger of being crushed between them.

Sorry to sound negative, but the market is pitiless, particularly when two big players are at war.

Your words of wisdom are very true Ray. At API we produce innovative plumbing products which usually get sold to the big boys as patents/prototypes. With the filter market - its gettin crowded and there might be a price war as you say.

However an avenue we are going down early next year (not a filter product) is sellin direct to the end user - home owner or operator/landlord and then they can get the product fitted by their plumber rather than us rely on his opinion & salesmanship. They can buy the product direct from us or from merchants at the same price.


centralheatking

 

[bspareltd]

Our filter is currently going to start retailing at £65 and the official online GAS SAFE distributor has taken this on .
This will be available from them on December the 17th , you can pre order if you like .
www.gassafetyshop.co.uk

 

[Ray Stafford]

Our filter is currently going to start retailing at £65 and the official online GAS SAFE distributor has taken this on .
This will be available from them on December the 17th , you can pre order if you like .
www.gassafetyshop.co.uk

Hi bspareltd.

Congrats on getting that off the ground. A couple of questions:

Is that £65 + VAT or inclusive?
You use the term "retail at..." - filters aren't usually a retail sale - is that really a trade price? Or can trade customers expect discounts?

I bet you are mighty relieved to have them on sale at last! Congrats againarty:

 

[bspareltd]

That is £65 + vat , to answer your second question Ray if trade customers rang into the gassafety shop and gave their Gas safe registration number , I'm sure they would give you a better price if you were to buy more than one filter.
:28:

Hi bspareltd.

Congrats on getting that off the ground. A couple of questions:

Is that £65 + VAT or inclusive?
You use the term "retail at..." - filters aren't usually a retail sale - is that really a trade price? Or can trade customers expect discounts?

I bet you are mighty relieved to have them on sale at last! Congrats againarty:

 

[vern]

Well pal seen the advert in this months gas installer! Lets hope things move from here, keep us up to date, and remember the free samples lol

 

[bspareltd]

What do you think of the advert in the gas installers magazine , page 92 and a editorial in the industry innovation section page 86 .
Managed to do the same with Pham magazine but not with REGISTERED GAS ENGINNERS only a 1/4 page advert.
I will certainly be sending samples out , could you email me on [email protected] and i will be sending samples out in mid december

 

[vern]

What do you think of the advert in the gas installers magazine , page 92 and a editorial in the industry innovation section page 86 .
Managed to do the same with Pham magazine but not with REGISTERED GAS ENGINNERS only a 1/4 page advert.
I will certainly be sending samples out , could you email me on [email protected] and i will be sending samples out in mid december

Clear and concise TBH, spotted it straight away! Shame about the MC PRO2 getting a full page ad! But then again ADEY are a marketing machine now!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

from now i am officially dropping magnacleans and specifying trappex and the first one i get is going strait on my dads old baxi 80 eco,now my dad much like me,we dont do anything to our own boilers or systems until they,leak,die or explode so his systems a good test never been de-scaled,and is pumping what resembles oil around his system with lumpy bits and i have just unblocked his phex again my performas a bit better i de-scaled it 6 years ago LOL i even serviced it last month,pics will follow from my dads system

 

[vern]

from now i am officially dropping magnacleans and specifying trappex and the first one i get is going strait on my dads old baxi 80 eco,now my dad much like me,we dont do anything to our own boilers or systems until they,leak,die or explode so his systems a good test never been de-scaled,and is pumping what resembles oil around his system with lumpy bits and i have just unblocked his phex again my performas a bit better i de-scaled it 6 years ago LOL i even serviced it last month,pics will follow from my dads system

Nice....we need pics....bought a sentinel eliminator to take to bits, magnets x4 look weedy........waiting for a system like your dads to try it on lol.

Changed the seal on a MC lid today just 1 year old, found when doing on ASV to boiler...