Advice / opinions on electric combi boilers

[Lili]

Hello all
I hope it's okay to seek some advice on this forum.
A bit of background first: I live in a flat, built around 2000, originally came with PowerMax boiler, this was replaced with a combi Glow Worm end of 2012. End of 2015 had a leak from the flue, it was decided that it was due to poor installation, not following manufacturers specs re: flue drop (the boiler is quite far from outside wall, the total length of flue is close to 5m so the drop needed to be quite significant). What seemed to be a serious company replaced the flue, dropped the boiler so that the flue drop was maintained as per specs. Happy days.

Except yesterday boiler packed up (won't ignite), and engineer who just visited said it was due to combustion from the flue going back into boiler. He said it's a problem waiting to happen again, even if the flue is re-done again.
He recommended replacing it with electric combi boiler Elnur. I have to say that I am seriously considering going electric - even though I know running costs will go up. However, the flat is not big, it keeps heat well (we only really need to turn on heating when it's really cold, for about an hour or two in the morning and evening). As long as I don't have to keep a tank of hot water for washing etc., I think it won't be too bad. Just to note, we do like our baths (rarely shower).
Elnur is a brand I've never heard of, and I am a bit worried about going with them - what if another 2-3 years time the boiler breaks down, by then the manufacturer went bust, no replacement parts... I'll be back to square one, having to replace the boiler - AGAIN.
My other concerns / requirements:
- I really, really would love to avoid tank + electric heater combo, due to 2 reasons, one is space (very precious in this tiny apartment), and two, I've gone through this in one of apartments before and the running costs were astronomical - I hope a combi would not be so bad.
- I want to be able to forget I have a boiler for at least next 5 years. If I have to fix or replace a boiler AGAIN I think I'll just go mad (this is a third time in this apartment, and twice before in rented - all in a space of 10 years!)

Any recommendations re: other electric boilers that do not require a massive tank / don't take much space, are reliable, and don't cost a little fortune to run? Any things I should be aware of in terms of how hot the water can get, how electric affects water pressure or anything else?
Any other options I have?

Thanks a lot
Liliana

 

[DevsAd]

I don't know what the leaky bit ist, but I'd love to know. My guess, too, would be the connection to the boiler, or one of these first bends. And, yes, in theory only that part would need replacing - a dead easy and dead cheap job.

I must be missing something, tho' - the only other conclusion is that all the plumbers you have had out are 'trying it on' in some way, and that is extremely unlikely!

They have seemingly all come to the same conclusion - there is an inherent 'issue' with this setup that - for some bizarre reason - cannot be resolved by simply replacing a dodgy flue part with a good new one.

But I can't get my head around what that 'issue' could be.

For plumbers to go to the lengths of recommending a change to an electric combi (yuck...) for a 5-year old boiler (that's no age), or to offer only a 1 year warranty on a new flue does suggest there's something else going on, an 'issue' that I ain't getting.

Lili, you are now an 'informed' layperson - you have a good grasp of what's involved here - so if you could insist these plumbers explain, in laypeep's terms, what the 'ell the actual issue is, that would be great. And then folk on here could almost certainly advise further.

 

[Harvest Fields]

@DevsAd you have a very good eye even with these few details. The flue is pished away from the wall as between bathroom and boiler room there is space for for pipes and there is one (big one) going next to the wall. So the flue needs to fit in little space between that pipe and the bathroom wall. Still, max length of flue is 10m and the run is around 6.5 so that leaves some space for this extra bend, theoretically.
As for: what is leaking, I'd like to know that now. When the first guy came and said it I accepted it, but now I wonder if that's the case. He tried to show me that some gas/steam is coming from the flue into boiler but whether it indeed was or was it coming from somewhere else I couldn't tell.
I wonder if perhaps the only leaky bit is right next to elbow. Can something like that be replaced as a part or the whole flue needs to be put from scratch?

Did we get an answer as to why the case is off the boiler?

 

[Lili]

@DevsAd Thanks a lot for your input, it made me think, and question, and call another person in to try and fix it. I trusted the first guy and went on the assumption that the whole flue would have to be relaid, and that being a second problem with flue, I thought it cannot be done right and thus electric is the safer option. Therefore, the other visits I had were for a quote for new installation only (they didn't even start they boiler).
After your questions and input I decided to call another person in to try and fix it, or at least explain to me why it cannot be fixed. The result is that this guy actually decided to check WHY the flue is leaking, and it turns out it is a problem with installation right near the boiler entrance. Basically, the previous company hung it a little bit too low, and rather than correct their mistake, they fudged the connections on the flue right next to it (see new picture). So the flue (probably) never had a proper, tight fit and it's a bit of a miracle (not) that it worked so long. Not a miracle because if it failed earlier I would have called in the people who f..d it up to fix it but hey-ho.

Apparently the rest of the flue looks fine - supported in the right places, right drop etc. Hopefully they didn't fudge it anywhere else (but we didn't see any moisture anywhere else around the joints).
Anyway, he said he can fix it - he will lift the boiler to correct place, and replace these few parts with new ones, and seal it correctly.
Despite all that mess and leak, apparently the boiler survived (again - brave little fella!).

I don't want to jinx it, but hopefully by the end of the week I'll have it up and running again. I'll report here once it's done, but in any case - thank you SO MUCH for your help here, it's been invaluable.

 

[Harvest Fields]

And also glad to see he has put the case back on for you.

 

[DevsAd]

@DevsAd Thanks a lot for your input, it made me think, and question, and call another person in to try and fix it. I trusted the first guy and went on the assumption that the whole flue would have to be relaid, and that being a second problem with flue, I thought it cannot be done right and thus electric is the safer option. Therefore, the other visits I had were for a quote for new installation only (they didn't even start they boiler).
After your questions and input I decided to call another person in to try and fix it, or at least explain to me why it cannot be fixed. The result is that this guy actually decided to check WHY the flue is leaking, and it turns out it is a problem with installation right near the boiler entrance. Basically, the previous company hung it a little bit too low, and rather than correct their mistake, they fudged the connections on the flue right next to it (see new picture). So the flue (probably) never had a proper, tight fit and it's a bit of a miracle (not) that it worked so long. Not a miracle because if it failed earlier I would have called in the people who f..d it up to fix it but hey-ho.

Apparently the rest of the flue looks fine - supported in the right places, right drop etc. Hopefully they didn't fudge it anywhere else (but we didn't see any moisture anywhere else around the joints).
Anyway, he said he can fix it - he will lift the boiler to correct place, and replace these few parts with new ones, and seal it correctly.
Despite all that mess and leak, apparently the boiler survived (again - brave little fella!).

I don't want to jinx it, but hopefully by the end of the week I'll have it up and running again. I'll report here once it's done, but in any case - thank you SO MUCH for your help here, it's been invaluable.

View attachment 32157

That looks like a result!

You know what, I almost mentioned - after seeing your last photo in your post #24 - that the bottom collar on that flue immediately above the boiler was not sitting straight - you can see an uneven gap under it - and I wondered if that flue was being forced to that angle due to incorrect alignment.

But it's even better that a new plumber (at last a decent cove) went to the effort to ID this issue themelves.

And - wow - that's some mismatch!

I am incensed that so many so-called GasSafes have repeatedly botched up your install and have got away with it. The last company - the one that lowered your boiler too far - should be paying for this. In more ways than one.

In reality it's 'unlikely' it would have been 'dangerous' since the exhaust gases are sent out in the centre pipe which is surrounded by the intake sleeve, but to knowingly (and they sooo knew) force a flue connection to fit when it didn't want to would be a valid issue for reporting them to GasSafe (in fact should ideally still be done as the guy responsible might still be trading with a different group, or alone). You can picture their frustration when they realised they'd gone too far - a series of expletives followed by "what are we going to do about it?" They made the wrong decision.

But, good result and Happy New Working Boiler

 

[DevsAd]

(I would have thought an alternative to raising the boiler - in theory at least - would be to lower the straight length's boiler end by an inch or so, and thereby tweaking very slightly the overall 'fall' of the whole length, and then rotating that elbow to suit the angle would also have worked? The terminal end should cope easily with this microscopic tilt as it passes through a rubber diaphragm as it exits allowing such teeny tiny movement. It would probably mean altering the boxing around the pipe to accommodate the drop, tho'. But that's just layman 'theory', as I'm not a plumber, and best to let these guys get on with it...)