New member, can someone help check quality of this boiler install?

[robbb]

Hi,

Having a bit of a shocker with my current bathroom install which is leading me to question the entire work that my plumber / bathroom installer is in the middle of the job ( I posted on tiling forum the extent of the poor workmanship of tiles). Wondered the thoughts from all the pros on here for the boiler install.

This is a relocation into the loft of a new WB 18KW boiler (12 rads and hot water tank). 2 Mira Mode showers with pumps.

Doesn’t look the neatest to me, but does everything look how it should? Anything I need to chat to him about? It’s not tested or on yet so needs finalising.

I’d have expected it all to look better arranged and neater to be honest but safety is the prime concern.

Cheers,
Rob

 

[Harvest Fields]

I am clearly to tired. What is going on with me tonight??I am going home now anyway. I have had enough.

 

[robbb]

More pics, showing airing cupboard where original Potterton was and piping up to loft.

 

[Ric2013]

Where did he learn to solder like that? I had a joint go wrong the other day and it ended up better than that.

Here's a safety one then. Did he make the holes in that Artex?

Artex of a certain age very often contains white asbestos (chrysotile asbestos). I wonder if he's qualified to be legally allowed to touch it and if the proper precautions were taken? How old is that Artex, do you think? Has it been sampled for asbestos? It may not contain asbestos, but potential asbestos containing materials (ACM's) should always be treated as if they did contain asbestos until proven otherwise. The proper precautions are quite stringent - see the HSE website on how asbestos is supposed to be handled - there is an article on textured coatings. In fairness, it does look as if he's broken the Artex, rather than drill it, so this will have released fewer fibres than drilling it, at least.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Where did he learn to solder like that? I had a joint go wrong the other day and it ended up better than that.

Here's a safety one then. Did he make the holes in that Artex?

Artex of a certain age very often contains white asbestos (chrysotile asbestos). I wonder if he's qualified to be legally allowed to touch it and if the proper precautions were taken? How old is that Artex, do you think? Has it been sampled for asbestos? It may not contain asbestos, but potential asbestos containing materials (ACM's) should always be treated as if they did contain asbestos until proven otherwise. The proper precautions are quite stringent - see the HSE website on how asbestos is supposed to be handled - there is an article on textured coatings. In fairness, it does look as if he's broken the Artex, rather than drill it, so this will have released fewer fibres than drilling it, at least.

Old flue hole

 

[Ric2013]

Old flue hole

What about the smaller holes for the two 22mm pipes? (sorry, can't figure out what they are).

 

[Ric2013]

I've just realised that what I thought was a soil and vent pipe terminating in the loft is only a piece of soil pipe from the airing cupboard to the loft. Not sure what it is for, but at least it isn't what I thought it was.

 

[KingDoey]

The asbestos in artex supposedly cannot be released by drilling into it. Just got back off an asbestos course last week. The matrix is too tightly compressed. It's practically impossible to unlock it.

That was from the mouth of an asbestos guy who's been doing it for 40 odd years

 

[Harvest Fields]

Hi

Hi

 

[ShaunCorbs]

 

[KingDoey]

Didn't mean to do that was trying to quote. Still getting used to this new forum haha

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Didn't mean to do that was trying to quote. Still getting used to this new forum haha

you got harvest all excited

 

[robbb]

Hi. Am contacting local plumbers to try to get all of this mess resolved.

 

[robbb]

Slightly off topic but is an 18kw enough for 12 rads and hot water? Smaller ones in bedroom, 3 of them towel rails.

 

[townfanjon]

you got harvest all excited

It doesnt take much lol

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Slightly off topic but is an 18kw enough for 12 rads and hot water? Smaller ones in bedroom, 3 of them tower rails.

I would say your close too close needs working out

Heat loss each room and add 3-5kw for a copper cylinder or 15-20kw for an unvented one

 

[robbb]

I would say your close too close needs working out

Heat loss each room and add 3-5kw for a copper cylinder or 15-20kw for an unvented one

I would say your close too close needs working out

Heat loss each room and add 3-5kw for a copper cylinder or 15-20kw for an unvented one

Just added up all the current rads in the house using a KW calculator, came out as just over 10kw currently. Upstairs have older 600 x 400 single panels that seem to put out about 0.35 kw each. Should have a bit of headroom with 18KW.

 

[helpsy]

If in time the coil was to pinhole in the cylinder the primary water would contaminate the secondary water. Also it wouldn't meet the regs regarding support of the cisterns from memory.

 

[Ric2013]

If in time the coil was to pinhole in the cylinder the primary water would contaminate the secondary water.

Exactly what would happen with a sealed system. I agree that it is better to have the cold water storage cistern at a higher pressure (height) than the F & E, but I asked this question on this forum and consensus was that there is no regulation on this (and, in this case, it would not really be practical to raise the existing cold water storage cistern to a higher level just in case, one day, the coil fails). I would have done the same as the installer has done.

Also it wouldn't meet the regs regarding support of the cisterns from memory.

Cistern must be fully supported on close boarding. Which the F & E seems to be. Looks like chipboard or OSB where I would prefer to see 18mm hardwood ply, but perhaps it's a matter of preference. The boarding is on three supports, so it won't be going anywhere, after all.

I am, though, suspicious that the combined cold feed and vent pipe coming out of it may not slope down away from the cistern as it should do. I would also expect the cistern to be lidded and well lagged when the work is completed.

 

[robbb]

Ok have sacked the guy and issued a notice for refund. Will see how we get on with that.

Had a separate emergency quote for relocation back to the original place (airing cupboard) by reputable company.

£2k is the cost. Is this reasonable?

 

[Harvest Fields]

You will find that most engineers will treat it as a complete new install. Even though the boiler is already there. Seems a little high but depends on what you are getting for that?

 

[robbb]

You will find that most engineers will treat it as a complete new install. Even though the boiler is already there. Seems a little high but depends on what you are getting for that?

Moving everything back down to the airing cupboard below, repiping etc. 2 guys.

 

[robbb]

Likely has a premium added to it as they can do it on Friday.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

This time of year I would be questioning who can do it that quick

Most of the good ones are busy

 

[deg]

You will pay a higher price as your new plumber will know there has been previous plumber working on the system and will be wanting to cover his bum

 

[SavageW]

Looking at the right hand new copper pipe 22mm,it reduces to 15mm to an existing painted pipe,is that the gas?

 

[SavageW]

Looking at the pipework layout an then the photo of your airing cupboard I do think that’s the gas pipe

 

[robbb]

Ok. I think I have a serious problem!

I don’t think the fitter was Gas Safe And was relying on a 3rd party to ‘commission’ the boiler as he has put it.

I served him a 3 page letter today detailing that we would be terminating any further work as it was not up to standard and a request for a refund for the money that we had already paid.

My worry is that this has been illegally installed. I have paid about £1350 for the boiler, pump, flue etc and he was to install for free due to the damage caused to the initial boiler that was not part of the original work.

So I’m left with a installed boiler that has potentially been illegally installed (I’ve asked exactly who did it and am waiting for a response’).

His text today ‘The boiler is complete, just needs commissioning and the wiring sorted as the condense pump has been removed and the boiler repositioned, being a different boiler the current cables are different’.

Thoughts? Local guy that I earlier found can no longer do the work!

 

[robbb]

View attachment 31958
Looking at the pipework layout an then the photo of your airing cupboard I do think that’s the gas pipe

Yes looks like he’s fit a 22mm feed to the boiler from the 15mm in airing cupboard.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I would get gas safe out asap least if he is not registered there will be a report

Have you asked him for his gas safe reg ?

 

[robbb]

I would get gas safe out asap least if he is not registered there will be a report

Have you asked him for his gas safe reg ?

I’ve asked him whom installed. I’ve got a feeling he is not Gas safe. He’s already confirmed that he removed cover from broken boiler to me via text so potentially broken law already.