New builds zone valves on combi

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Ricardo Napoli

Ricardo Napoli

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Hi everyone, if anybody is out there that can give a little help would be great. I’m going from domestic plumbing into house bashing end of the month now I’ve been told the heating on new builds is zoned off even on combi boilers. Could anybody just shine some light on how to pipe this system up. The zone valves would be in a cupboard upstairs. Thanks.
 
What don’t you understand about piping it?? Surely you’ve come across s plan arrangements doing domestic plumbing? It’s very similar
 
Second paragraph down, ‘every home must be divided into at least two zones’

0D75A47A-4458-4916-813A-D87BFE8D2440.png
 
Ricardo Napoli said:
Hi everyone, if anybody is out there that can give a little help would be great. I’m going from domestic plumbing into house bashing end of the month now I’ve been told the heating on new builds is zoned off even on combi boilers. Could anybody just shine some light on how to pipe this system up. The zone valves would be in a cupboard upstairs. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Do you have any qualifications as a heating engineer? The fact you don't seem to be familar with the current Building Regulations and are asking an internet forum such a general question means you are taking on a big risk by also trying to design the system yourself. Your contract from the developer should include a detailed specification of the work they want done, including a drawing of pipe sizes and runs, methods and materials statements, etc. You need to check this against current regs and query anything that doesn't seem right to you.
 
Chuck said:
Do you have any qualifications as a heating engineer? The fact you don't seem to be familar with the current Building Regulations and are asking an internet forum such a general question means you are taking on a big risk by also trying to design the system yourself. Your contract from the developer should include a detailed specification of the work they want done, including a drawing of pipe sizes and runs, methods and materials statements, etc. You need to check this against current regs and query anything that doesn't seem right to you.
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Hi thanks for the reply, I’ve been plumbing for 6 years with a company doing general plumbing underfloor heating and one off new builds just want to try out site work for something different. I haven’t had any drawings as yet as I haven’t started yet was just asking about to see what it’s like. Thanks
 
https://assets.publishing.service.g.../attachment_data/file/697525/DBSCG_secure.pdf
Rather than referring to manufacturers guides etc. We should be going to the Guide that is produced & kept up to date, to highlight what is required to be Part L compliant, cross different fuels & if it is new build or replacement.
Table 3, page 18 if Gas fired wet = >150M2, 2 zones required to have independent time & temperature control. The philosophy being the sleeping areas can be turned off or down during the day even if the living areas are occupied giving an saving.
 
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My understanding of Part L, is as Craig said.
Below 150 (2 zones Htg & H.Wtr) above 150 (min. 3 zones 2 Htg 1 H.Wtr)
Boiler Plus is for Combi installs.
I note the FAQ from bogrodder is from Honeywell.
 
bogrodder said:
If you’re right Craig, that **** architect cost me lots of money and time in unnecessary work:mad:.

But even the BCO said the houses had to be zoned.
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I'm no expert on the subject, after all I do only fit bathrooms (whistling emoji) ;), but that's the way I read the building regs. And as far as I'm aware it is only deemed good practice to zone your heating off in properties below 150m2 floor area.
 
Craig Watson said:
I'm no expert on the subject, after all I do only fit bathrooms (whistling emoji) ;), but that's the way I read the building regs. And as far as I'm aware it is only deemed good practice to zone your heating off in properties below 150m2 floor area.
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You’re probably reading it, as it is. We can’t know everything, far to much ever changing bureaucracy. We do have lives outside of our careers.
 
bogrodder said:
You’re probably reading it, as it is. We can’t know everything, far to much ever changing bureaucracy. We do have lives outside of our careers.
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We're supposed to have lives outside of our careers? Can someone please tell my boss that :D. You are right though, they do keep changing, they need to make their mind up and just stick to it. Trvs for example, when changing a boiler, used to be recommended, then went to mandatory and now back to strongly reccomended. You can understand when changing a rad that as a drain down isn't required you can't force the customer to have a trv. But why it isn't mandatory for them while the system is drained for a boiler swap is just stupid.
 
Craig Watson said:
We're supposed to have lives outside of our careers? Can someone please tell my boss that :D. You are right though, they do keep changing, they need to make their mind up and just stick to it. Trvs for example, when changing a boiler, used to be recommended, then went to mandatory and now back to strongly reccomended. You can understand when changing a rad that as a drain down isn't required you can't force the customer to have a trv. But why it isn't mandatory for them while the system is drained for a boiler swap is just stupid.
Click to expand...

The powers at be, just like making it hard for us

C@nts
 
Craig Watson said:
We're supposed to have lives outside of our careers? Can someone please tell my boss that :D. You are right though, they do keep changing, they need to make their mind up and just stick to it. Trvs for example, when changing a boiler, used to be recommended, then went to mandatory and now back to strongly reccomended. You can understand when changing a rad that as a drain down isn't required you can't force the customer to have a trv. But why it isn't mandatory for them while the system is drained for a boiler swap is just stupid.
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I am sorry Craig but where does it state TRVs are only recommended ?
a. Each space heating circuit should be provided with:
  1. independent time control, and either:
  2. a room thermostat or programmable room thermostat located in a reference room[6] served by the heating circuit, together with individual radiator controls such as thermostatic radiator valves (TRVs) on all radiators outside the reference rooms, or
individual networked radiator controls in each room on the circuit.

I can't ever remember a time there couldn't be installed if they were not where before.

You are the pro's guys, why is it so difficult to say up to date with what is required ?

The link I posted is the proper current Part L requirements, it just requires a small amount of reading.

I am not being funny bogrodder but why would you be relying on an architect to tell you the requirements for a heating system? I can understand your frustration with BCO you should know but seem to no be interested in any of it.
 
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Page 19 of your document. When replacing a boiler, upgrading to trvs is only deemed good practice and isn't actually a requirement.
 
As Craig has just said above. For existing central heating systems if the boiler is changed then its only classed as good practise to fit TRV's and. Not a requirement as per table 4.

I have uploaded the snapshot of the document as some may find it useful.

It does however state that if a new heating system is installed (even if existing pipework is retained) then it does require TRV's to be installed on every radiator that isn't a reference room (one with an interlocked thermostat control).

Which I'm assuming would be the scenario where the boiler is being changed and new radiators etc at the same time utilising the existing piping that is already in place.

Screenshot_20190310_155723.jpg
 
I think based on all the contradicting and conflicting opinion we can probably agree that until the profession is correctly policed then you are going to get constant discrepancy and differing opinion of what is a nice to have and what is mandatory. I would love to see this job licensed the same with gas. None of this “competent” rubbish if you haven’t got the ticket you can’t do the work. Simple
 
chris watkins said:
I am sorry Craig but where does it state TRVs are only recommended ?
a. Each space heating circuit should be provided with:
  1. independent time control, and either:
  2. a room thermostat or programmable room thermostat located in a reference room[6] served by the heating circuit, together with individual radiator controls such as thermostatic radiator valves (TRVs) on all radiators outside the reference rooms, or individual networked radiator controls in each room on the circuit.
I can't ever remember a time there couldn't be installed if they were not where before.
You are the pro's guys, why is it so difficult to say up to date with what is required ?
The link I posted is the proper current Part L requirements, it just requires a small amount of reading
I am not being funny bogrodder but why would you be relying on an architect to tell you the requirements for a heating system? I can understand your frustration with BCO you should know but seem to no be interested in any of it.
Click to expand...

"Hoist by his own Petard" I think is the correct response here Craig! You were quite correct & I was wrong (very red faced :oops:).

It is a good job I no longer teach the Part L and I promise to do CPD on it in the future.

Just to be clear that the option to not install TRVs (or similar) applies just to a straight boiler swop only. If it is a new install or heating pipework is altered or rads are replaced they must be added.
Sorry Craig, (I am sitting here stuffing my face with humble pie)
 

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