Zoning education.

[Dan Masey]

I'm still trying to get my head around central heating zones. I understand the practicality and that each zone has its own thermostat or programmer. But someone asked me today, how is having a separate thermostat upstairs any different than setting all the upstairs TRV's to 3 or 4??

Wasn't really sure on the best answer to this. Obviously a separate programmer makes sense but is it really worth it just having a thermostat controlling that zone?

 

[tiptoptrump]

Also looks like the others are radiator by radiator, whereas it seems like only Honeywell and Danfoss allows you to combine radiators into rooms / zones..

I bit the bullet last Xmas and treated myself to the Danfoss Link CC together with the living connect rad valves & Boiler relay. I also fitted an in-line relay to my hot water controls so everything is timed from the controller. All in all I am well impressed with the system. All the rooms have different set back times, set up from the central controller. I experimented a bit as the default setting was for every trv, when demanding heat, to flash up the boiler. I have knocked it down to just a few critical rooms. TVR's are the the neatest on the market some of which can be controlled by other Z-Wave equipment. I liked the Controller so much I decided to go for it. Can't understand Danfoss' reluctance to support the product in the uk. They know it has a boiler interlock because the unit is manufactured here. I did ask them if they were waiting for an upgrade to an opentherm interlock similar to the one with honeywell evohome, but they steadfastly refuse to answer any questions, with the comment "we don’t currently support this in the UK".

 

[happyflyer]

Tiptop,

Why should they support the UK, the domestic market is stuck with it's head in the sand with four quid TRVs, they must sell 100,000s a year, as gas runs out and the price continues to rise eventually people will start to think about saving energy, full house control is the only way to save energy, every room timed and temperature controlled, simplezzzz, Ermi is on is way to the future with zoning, a bit sort of first principles but he has seen the light, but would he do that for a custard, would the custard have the space, Jodrell Bank taking over one of your bedrooms to control the room temps, I am not knocking him for trying at least he's making an effort. I have said before there are a number of whole house system out there but the UK domestic market on energy saving is tosh, government don't go far enough with the 2 zone brain dead token gesture idea. Hell of a good job commercial see energy in a different light

 

[happyflyer]

This is one for Ermi only not in plastic, I spend all my days now snagging other peoples work (easy hey) this is a job like Ermi has done at home only on a commercial, see if you can spot the mistakes.

 

[Ermintrude]

DHW DCW labelled incorrectly as return shown as DCW. No back flow protection that I can see. Flue not pointed, gas pipework under supported and asking for damage. Drain off in a considerate location. No Aav??

LLH well supported with no Aav

Couldn't see where system water coming from?
Manifold looked ok? Was bypass facing right way? Drain off on primary side of LLH missing?

Around twin head looked messy. Frost control?

Gas sleeve not pointed or sealed, earth? Supply looks a bit narrow for 100kw?

Probably missed all sorts.

 

[TomLane]

DHW DCW labelled incorrectly as return shown as DCW. No back flow protection that I can see. Flue not pointed, gas pipework under supported and asking for damage. Drain off in a considerate location. No Aav??

LLH well supported with no Aav

Couldn't see where system water coming from?
Manifold looked ok? Was bypass facing right way? Drain off on primary side of LLH missing?

Around twin head looked messy. Frost control?

Gas sleeve not pointed or sealed, earth? Supply looks a bit narrow for 100kw?

Probably missed all sorts.

Top effort of analysis for a Sunday morning!

Fair play!

There was me thinking that the magnolia walls looked like they could do with a lick of paint!

 

[happyflyer]

DHW DCW labelled incorrectly as return shown as DCW. No back flow protection that I can see. Flue not pointed, gas pipework under supported and asking for damage. Drain off in a considerate location. No Aav??

LLH well supported with no Aav

Couldn't see where system water coming from?
Manifold looked ok? Was bypass facing right way? Drain off on primary side of LLH missing?

Around twin head looked messy. Frost control?

Gas sleeve not pointed or sealed, earth? Supply looks a bit narrow for 100kw?

Probably missed all sorts.

Jeez Ermi,

Even I didn't spot any of them, you got the job, when do you want to start, minimum wage OK...:crowngrin:

 

[happyflyer]

Ermi,

Look at the photo of the boiler and lets start at the boiler and discuss the merits of fitting a shut off valve on the flow and return directly under the boiler, have you ever seen this on the domestic scene. BTW the expansion vessel is not inside the boiler case, you could have also assumed that looking and the size of the system

Tony

 

[Leo21]

All these extra controls are well and good, but will the custs want to pay the extra? I don't think so. Then there's the reliability which is carp on most of these wireless products.

 

[happyflyer]

All these extra controls are well and good, but will the custs want to pay the extra? I don't think so. Then there's the reliability which is carp on most of these wireless products.

No Leo Custard won't want to pay until Custard can't pay gas bill, I am not advocating wireless

 

[Ermintrude]

Got no choice if it's a big house. Part L.

Re expansion ; wood for the trees didn't see big red elephant in room. If valves full bore I always fit as make repairs or boiler change easier. If in a cascade I always fit trimming valve on outside two just to help set up. ( but that's over 90kw so I never done anything over 75, honest )

Is pump internal? No magnetic filter? Adey industrial ones are nice

 

[happyflyer]

Ermi,

No magfilter no copper in system all steel, could have still fitted one, big red elephant on other side of room, point was would you fit two HAND operated valves one on flow and return directly under boiler, if you want to isolate the boiler look at the other photo, it would take you 30 seconds to close all the zone valve, drop the pressure in the boiler by lifting the PRV and no water in boiler, valves not needed and no one could accidentally turn them off when boiler running, a mere point and a waste of money.

 

[Ermintrude]

Never dump by prv! The fkr never reseals, drain off at lowest point it's a.basic! Perhaps some lock Sheilds then? Or ones that require a hex key. But who's going in the plant room? Care taker? . No provision for balancing on returns either? Assume each cir is more than one emitter?

 

[happyflyer]

Never dump by prv! The fkr never reseals, drain off at lowest point it's a.basic! Perhaps some lock Sheilds then? Or ones that require a hex key. But who's going in the plant room? Care taker? . No provision for balancing on returns either? Assume each cir is more than one emitter?

Ermi,

I was waiting for you to spot the none balancing on the zones, yes and there are about 5 radiators on each zone, that's why I told you to go back to the zone valve photo, BTW all the snagging has been put right now.

The blowing off of the PRV is rather interesting, you say don't do it, how would you go about replacing the air gap on a Megaflow


Tony

 

[Ermintrude]

Blow it off and replace prv. ££££ though!

 

[happyflyer]

Blow it off and replace prv. ££££ though!

Ermi,

The process for replacing the air bubble in a Megaflow entails manually opening the PRV, it's a standard procedure that you may need to do twice a year,
they don't leak after, its good gear.


Tony