What's the worst case if I leave Sludge Remover in permanently ?

[kay-jay]

if you are pretty handy the best way to flush out your system cheaply is to remove a small downstairs rad, connect a hose to each valve one to a drain and one to outside tap or w/m valve. close all other rads water flows around all pipework only then out to drain, when clear open next rad and repeat, then close it and open next etc etc. on open vented system bung feed and vent

 

[FD Powerflow]

Nice post Flyboy,

Yes some cleaners have acidic bases, this isn't however to dissolve sludge as this isnt possible at the acidity level (3-5ph) which most cleaners use, this acid is used to descale instead. Most cleaners available on the domestic market are dispersants/chelants whose job it is to break up deposits of sludge and remobilise them making it easier to flush/filter out.

As for inhibitors its not the boiler manufacturers word alone its the buildcert standard which proves an inhibitors worth, they test a sample of all inhibitors and make set a maximum corrosion rate level, only a few of which have this approval, Fernox, Sentinel and Wolseley own brand that Im aware of. Best proving ground I've seen for inhibitors though is the copper tube with two clout nails through it in a jam jar, one has MB1 in it and the other just water, the one without inhibitor corrodes in about a month.

In answer to the original post, depending on the cleaner there shouldnt be anything in it to cause damage to a system, however the manufacturer will know better, some cleaners however contain phosphates which are known to swell orings and non epdm rubber (vaillant ecotec hose issue from last year).

 

[mitchellplumber]

I would agitate the radiators asap and then drain it down. Flush through with fresh water then add anti-freeze inhibitor. I use fernox Alphi 11. Wouldn't leave the cleanser or de-scale in any longer than stated on the bottle.

 

[mitchellplumber]

At the end of the day sludge is Iron oxide (metal) and this cleanser is designed to break sludge down.

 

[Rick the Spud]

Right. I've drained the system, flushed through, filled and drained again, then filled, bled and added No Nonsense inhibitor as it's buildcert approved and only £8.

My worry is that when i was draining and filling i was getting lumps of oxide coming out from the Fernox filter (after initial emptying) and from where i was draining, which means there's prob more in there and why didn't the sludge remover (over 3 weeks) and the inhibitor (over 6 months) break this down?

 

[AmritPedersen]

wow, cheers for that. an interesting read for sure.

thinking of draining in the next couple of days.

some more questions!

1. to do a flush is it best to drain down and refill (which before has settled sludge in pipes and blocked them), or do what i did before and drain from the bottom rad but with the expansion tank still adding water, until it runs clear from the bottom rad, then stop draining, run heating to stir it all up, then run drain hose again until clear. repeat until it runs clear almost straight away. also means u get no airlocks.

2. not suggesting i will, but what would happen if u put normal household descaler in your system?

What I do is to flus thru with mains water first (if its easy) otherwise drain down fully. Refill with clean water & add sludge remover. After reading Flyboy, I'm going to keep doing that as I always thought that this will get rid of the easy stuff & allow the expensive chemical to work on the tougher stuff.

Power flush (I'm planning to get the MagnaClean powerflush thing when cash flow allows). While its flushing, wollop the rads with trusty rubber mallet to dislodge the crud.

Drain, refill, flush thru with mains water thru each rad individually.

Refill & add inhibitor.

 

[AmritPedersen]

Right. I've drained the system, flushed through, filled and drained again, then filled, bled and added No Nonsense inhibitor as it's buildcert approved and only £8.

My worry is that when i was draining and filling i was getting lumps of oxide coming out from the Fernox filter (after initial emptying) and from where i was draining, which means there's prob more in there and why didn't the sludge remover (over 3 weeks) and the inhibitor (over 6 months) break this down?

Its taken years to build up, do you really thing that some chemicals will get rid of it that easily? That's why these magnetic filters are so great IMO. They'll keep picking out that sludge long after you've forgotten to check

 

[AmritPedersen]

btw I really enjoyed this post & learnt something. Pretty hard considering I'm on my 3rd whiskey

 

[Rick the Spud]

cheers, this is what i did last week, or a combination of things anyway. Flush, drain down, flush, refil, circulate, flush, drain down, flush, refil, bleed, add inhibitor.

my only hope is that the new inhibitor will carry on breaking down the oxide. is it worth adding another one for £8, it says you can't overdose on the stuff?

 

[Rick the Spud]

Confused.com!

Now i've drained, flushed and refilled with No-nonsense inhibitor, the Fernox TF1 filter seems to be catching oxide again after hardly catching any for months. My worry is that the Tradesave inhibitor and consequently sludge remover that was used didn't do it's job, if anything at all, and the No-nonsense stuff which IS buildcert approved is starting to breakdown the sludge. Everything is still working fine though and the water is still clear, so my questions are:

1. Shall i just let it circulate doing it's job and it will eventually break down the sludge and scale, of which the oxide will be caught in the filter?
2. Shall i flush through again with a better sludge remover meaning more effort and draining/flushing?
3. Has what i've done overall achieved similar results to what i would have expected from a powerflush, but cheaper and without the risk of sludging the bottom pipes of a microbore system?

 

[kay-jay]

If your tf1 is removing crap and all your rads are hot then leave the inhibitor in. If you still have cold spots and sludge in the system you need to drain and add a Decent sludge remover as your inhibitor won't do this. It simply prevents further corrosion

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[fuzzy]

i was told if you leave it in too long it clings together and blocks pipe. a fellow plumbing left it in too long and ended up having to cut pipes out

 

[kay-jay]

I may be wrong fuzzy buy i think he's removed the cleaner and now has inhibitor in his system

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[Rick the Spud]

yeah, only inhibitor in at the moment.

all rads are hot, what are cold spots?

don't think there is sludge in the system, flushed through until clear, and still clear, but the TF1 is collecting crap so it must be from somewhere.

If inhibitor has the power to stop sludge, surely it has the power to break down sludge and oxide lumps over time?

 

[kay-jay]

No. Inhibitor prevents future corrosion. Cold spots are areas on a radiator that don't get hot because of sludge and magnetite blockages. To breAk down corrosion and sludge in a system you need a system cleaner which you have used previously and seems to have worked. Just leave the inhibitor and the inhibitor tf1 to do their job

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