Speedfit Energy Saver Plus Manifold Rad System

[DirksPlumbing]

At the moment it's all copper hoping to get a more efficient system changing to these individual rad control.

Copper is not a bad thing but I do not think you are gonna be increasing your efficiency dramatic.
The UFH can only play its advances if linked straight into the boiler. As soon as you mix the water you add a pump and towards the boiler it looks like a conventional high temperature circuit.
And a D rated boiler will not be able to gain much out of it in any way.
But then again it is a start. If developed in the right direction it has potential.
Clever zoning might be the cheaper option here.

 

[antsals]

Nothing ever simple......I did plan to change the boiler in the near future to an A rated unit, but I thought I would just wait until my boiler was knackered!
Now I'm not sure what too do! Are you saying if I zone valve my ufh and zone valves rads that it isn't a good idea?

Cheers
ant

 

[DirksPlumbing]

If you have settled about the UFH then I would add a circuit for the bathroom rads/TRs, one for the rest of the rads, one for the HWCyl and one for the UFH.
Bear in mind that each actuator uses 2W on demand. If you have enough of them they might easily consume more power than your new A rated pump.

 

[DirksPlumbing]

Some mixers do not require a zone valve for the UFH.

 

[stevetheplumber]

nothing wrong with ten mm pipe most new builds are in ten mm and i do a lot of stuff in ten mm works great fast heat up due to low water content its the perfect system yes there are limits on the length of runs but in the average domestic property this isnt a problem and larger areas you use more than one manifold
no joins in the floors makes this the most leak free system
as to the comment about the diameter of a insert have you looked at the size of the water way through a trv?

 

[antsals]

Is it possiable to get 10mm manifolds?
As normal everyone has so much useful information I now don't have a clue what too do with my system, not sure if I'm just over killing it hunting for ultimate efficiency??
cheers
Ant

 

[DirksPlumbing]

nothing wrong with ten mm pipe most new builds are in ten mm and i do a lot of stuff in ten mm works great fast heat up due to low water content its the perfect system yes there are limits on the length of runs but in the average domestic property this isnt a problem and larger areas you use more than one manifold
no joins in the floors makes this the most leak free system
as to the comment about the diameter of a insert have you looked at the size of the water way through a trv?

You gave it away by mentioning quick heat that you are setting a high F/R temperature which contradicts the attempt to get as much as possible out a condensing boiler. How much condensation do you expect at 75 degC+?

That is exactly what I said, working somehow. Efficient is different.
But you are right, that is exactly what a lot of customers want.
Actually Stelrad makes the impossible possible with their new valve rads. You can have a comparably high heat radiation combined with low losses. But it still does not beat physics within the boiler.

As for no joints I get that with the MLCP pipe as well and beat mice at the same time as they tend not to eat through the aluminium.

But for the Op I would advice to have a scribble down what his plans are short and medium term and run that by a professional.
This project is to big for a bit of speculation.

 

[Gray0689]

You can have the best heating system in the world but if your house is not super insulated it's a load of rubbish

 

[Gray0689]

You gave it away by mentioning quick heat that you are setting a high F/R temperature which contradicts the attempt to get as much as possible out a condensing boiler. How much condensation do you expect at 75 degC+?

That is exactly what I said, working somehow. Efficient is different.
But you are right, that is exactly what a lot of customers want.
Actually Stelrad makes the impossible possible with their new valve rads. You can have a comparably high heat radiation combined with low losses. But it still does not beat physics within the boiler.

As for no joints I get that with the MLCP pipe as well and beat mice at the same time as they tend not to eat through the aluminium.

But for the Op I would advice to have a scribble down what his plans are short and medium term and run that by a professional.
This project is to big for a bit of speculation.

I agree think you should get someone in who is used to doing these kind of jobs it's not really a DIY kind of project your trying to do

 

[DirksPlumbing]

You can have the best heating system in the world but if your house is not super insulated it's a load of rubbish

Must say I found a lot of UFH doing exactly what they are named for: heating under the floor. Great example was one with 25mm Kingspan, no damp proof course and 45mm of wooden flooring (chip board+ underlay + hardwood).
So the soaking wet Kingspan was expected to insulate times better than the wooden decking . Well actually the customer did not find that funny as the house was stone cold but the mice run about with speedos in the coldest winter days.

 

[antsals]

What do you all think then.....sack off trying to individually zone the rooms in the house and just install new heating controls?

I do think I'd be missing out but if the general concensous, is that I'm just trying to something that will have no really advantage then there is no point!

Cheers,
Ant

 

[Gray0689]

I'd go for it if the house is well insulated you will save money in long run having more control

 

[antsals]

All the cavity is insulated and 300mm in the loft! An odd draft at the front door but hopefully sort that soon!

Did a few temperature checks from the hearing going off at 8am till come back on at 4pm set at 20 degrees and outside temperature lower I normally only loose a degree at most.

I'll do a little diagram of system I want to install and post later, then everyone can rip it to shreds!

Cheers,
Ant

 

[antsals]

Here's my "sketch" of what I was thinking. Each one of the underfloor heating zones and rad zones to be individually controlled via a room stat.

Any comments,
Cheers
Ant

 

[DirksPlumbing]

That is the easy part done. Heat loss calculation should be next. Consideration of the setup of the UFH as well. Which parts are meant to be reused and what is to be renewed in the first attack? What do you plan in medium term and how would that affect and be affected by decisions you do now. There is hundreds of questions to be answered but start with the heat loss. Common fault is firing UFH in without considering its limitations. And there is dozens of different types with totally different behaviours as well. Screeded? Dry screed? Wood decking? Pipe ID, pipe distance, waved layout, coiled layout, zoned layout? Where do you expect the most heat loss/intake in those rooms so that you can place the flow and select a suitable layout.
What wall thickness do you have or better what kind of thermal capacity does the building structure have? Are you gonna better off with a quicker system or with one with low reaction times?...
Pretty sure I could fill an A4 sheet with questions about the location.

Well maybe I was wrong a bit. The budget should be first consideration. And maybe a quick calculation of Return Of Investment excluding the parts requested by the wife as you will pay for them in any way

I can only repeat again that this project is beyond DIY. There are so many thing you can do wrong easily adding hundreds of pounds to your existing energy bill.
Another case I had where I warned the customer not to safe on the insulation for the UFH. I had been overridden as being paranoid. If he wants now to use his UFH he has to stretch out additional £800/an for heating a single tiny bathroom. But I am pretty sure the earth worms will be snugged under during the winter. And thank him that all summer long.