Plastic pipe verus copper pipe

[mark_mc]

I used to be a copper only plumber and still use a lot of copper. but on some jobs i have used plastic pipe and plastic fittings never under concrete floors or anywhere like that.

but plastic pipe is handy and to tell the truth takes a pipe from A-B and then to C just as good as any type of pipe.

and in the current climate where copper is so expensive and our customers have less cash we have to go with plastic.

me personally I will be using plastic pipe more than ever will still do all exposed work in copper but where it is not to be seen again i think plastic is the way to go.

plastic with compression is a better job and where its under floors i tend to use compression with pfte round the olive.

like anything it has to be tested hep20 recommend testing to 16bar and i think this is where the bad press is no-one tests to this pressure and expect all to be ok. at 10 bar you start to hear the fitting click and the teeth take hold, so if untested with heat on and off and pipe expanding and contracting without a test off course over time the fittng may fail

any other views on plastic pipe in are trade.

 

[Gray0689]

I'm a fan of pipe in pipe back to manifolds no joints under floor

 

[AWheating]

Plastic pipe is great, if fitted correctly! most of the problems you get from it is poor installation. Not enough clipping, not cut correctly, not pressure tested etc....

I have first fixed a site of 120+ family houses and only had one fitting leak after passing the pressure testing and that was a drip due to a scratch on the pipe into a fitting. I solved any further problems like this by adjusting my pressure testing into 3 stages.... 1 test at 1.5-2 bar (working pressure), 2 test at 5bar (2x working pressure) and then max manufactures recommended pressure which can range from 10bar to 18bar.
Polyplumb/fit fittings were tested to 18bar for 15mins, the rep from them told me that this was decided to be the best method because it caused the grab rings to bite just the right amount into the pipe to guarantee it cant pop off.

the question of copper over plastic is a hard answer as there are jobs where you will need to use one or the other, new joist types make copper installs very, very hard but i would rather use copper in drops in walls especially now with the regs on tracing runs and having to make plastic pipe detectable by wall scanners. Both are here to stay!!

 

[Nat]

Plastic pipe is great, if fitted correctly! most of the problems you get from it is poor installation. Not enough clipping, not cut correctly, not pressure tested etc....I have first fixed a site of 120+ family houses and only had one fitting leak after passing the pressure testing and that was a drip due to a scratch on the pipe into a fitting. I solved any further problems like this by adjusting my pressure testing into 3 stages.... 1 test at 1.5-2 bar (working pressure), 2 test at 5bar (2x working pressure) and then max manufactures recommended pressure which can range from 10bar to 18bar. Polyplumb/fit fittings were tested to 18bar for 15mins, the rep from them told me that this was decided to be the best method because it caused the grab rings to bite just the right amount into the pipe to guarantee it cant pop off. the question of copper over plastic is a hard answer as there are jobs where you will need to use one or the other, new joist types make copper installs very, very hard but i would rather use copper in drops in walls especially now with the regs on tracing runs and having to make plastic pipe detectable by wall scanners. Both are here to stay!!

Just to let you know building regs allow you to get over the detectable drops by putting metal tape that you can buy in the merchants behind the plastic pipe. Do not stick it on the pipe though as apparently the adhesive is no good for the plastic. Have done this many times in new build.

 

[Blackcatgas]

Just to let you know building regs allow you to get over the detectable drops by putting metal tape that you can buy in the merchants behind the plastic pipe. Do not stick it on the pipe though as apparently the adhesive is no good for the plastic. Have done this many times in new build.

or a bit of strap banding?

 

[gaspastemania]

uponor knocks socks of all the others imo

 

[gaspastemania]

Aquatherm is good as well

 

[AWheating]

Just to let you know building regs allow you to get over the detectable drops by putting metal tape that you can buy in the merchants behind the plastic pipe. Do not stick it on the pipe though as apparently the adhesive is no good for the plastic. Have done this many times in new build.

yes you right, have used it many times, not so good in stud walls tho as like you say you cant stick it to the plastic pipe because the manufactures wont guarantee the adhesive on the tape wont effect the chemical structure of the pipe. In stud wall we used to have to lagg the pipe and then tape the lagging and then tape the tape as it always falls off..... easier to drop some copper in if possible.

 

[Nat]

yes you right, have used it many times, not so good in stud walls tho as like you say you cant stick it to the plastic pipe because the manufactures wont guarantee the adhesive on the tape wont effect the chemical structure of the pipe. In stud wall we used to have to lagg the pipe and then tape the lagging and then tape the tape as it always falls off..... easier to drop some copper in if possible.

I just stick it to the plasterboard behind the pipe.

 

[GQuigley67]

silver foil tape good enough ?

 

[Nat]

silver foil tape good enough ?

That's the stuff. Usually used by laggers to tape up the joints in the foil lagging.

 

[GQuigley67]

ahh yeah I've got me some of that !! thank god lol

 

[AWheating]

I just stick it to the plasterboard behind the pipe.

how do you access both inside sides of the wall? are you as small as a nat Nat?? sorry could not help myself.

 

[Nat]

how do you access both inside sides of the wall? are you as small as a nat Nat?? sorry could not help myself.

Ha ha! A gnat you mean?No mate I just stick it to one side of the wall than the boarders close it up after. It will still be detectable from both sides of the wall. See what I mean?

 

[Guest123]

Best way to find plastic pipes is to send a couple of rodents down your pipe chase.

 

[Nat]

Best way to find plastic pipes is to send a couple of rodents down your pipe chase.

Or just keep screwing into the wall and you hear a hissing sound and water starts to pool at your feet.

 

[AWheating]

im not 100% sure but i think you need to have a detection depth of no more than 50mm? as i think you have to make all pipes and cables 50mm or less detectable?

i take it you work on houses with metal studded walls that are boarded on one side before you first fix? most of the houses i have worked on had timber studded walls which would not have any boards fitted to them at first fix stage.

 

[unguided1]

I do not use plastic as I have found that the ID is not suitable for the work I do and if I did use plastic I would have to use up to a minimum 35mm

 

[gaspastemania]

im not 100% sure but i think you need to have a detection depth of no more than 50mm? as i think you have to make all pipes and cables 50mm or less detectable?

i take it you work on houses with metal studded walls that are boarded on one side before you first fix? most of the houses i have worked on had timber studded walls which would not have any boards fitted to them at first fix stage.

Most of the main house builders wont have anyboards up on first fix ,simple case of tape your pipes as they request.

 

[AWheating]

Most of the main house builders wont have anyboards up on first fix ,simple case of tape your pipes as they request.

many half board the walls if its a metal framed wall to give the wall strength and give the electricans/plumbers a chance to get some of there boxes in correct positions, and as mentioned you cant put silver tape on plastic pipes as it voids warranty from manufactures due to the adhesive on the tape.(unless you lag pipe first and tape lagging)

 

[gaspastemania]

Voids warranty or not site agent asks site agent gets , barretts ,wimpey and persimmon metal there flats and dont half board anything pipes simply rested on top of the metal and use wooden braces on the drops half of modern britain is being plumbed like that , shocking but thats what happens when you put peeps on price.

 

[AWheating]

cowboys do what cowsboys do. LOL

 

[gaspastemania]

Hence why i would never buy a modern house built by accused , whole site on price people cut corners to earn the £££££'s . If there are 10 thousand plumbers on those sites around the country the ones earning the money will be doing exactly that .

 

[AWheating]

i know exactly what you mean. I could earn good money 1st fixing on new build and i would stick to the regs on everything, but along come guys who cut every corner you can think of and prices start to drop and drop. If only NHBC/building control inspected the houses correctly they would all get the boot.

 

[SimonG]

I use plastic out of sight, but if the cust wants copper they get copper. If I use plastic on a heating install (oil) its 22 copper to the manifolds and then 10mm from manifolds to rads, no underfloor joints, everything accessible (manifolds). Just first fixed two wetrooms all in speedfit, all pressure tested to 2b for 10 min and 10b for 10min.

It's nice to have it in the arsenal (plastic pipe) in some tricky situations.

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm!

Plastic is okay in places, but what about Earth continuity bonding? If you have copper then a piece of plastic then copper you would have to earth bond the two separate lots of exposed copper.

Even though the new RCD regs are in force you still have to have continuity bonding as RCD's are mechanical and so can fail leaving the exposed metal open to potential shock current.

 

[AWheating]

no need to bond across the plastic parts of a system, never seen it done once and ive worked of hundreds of houses plumbed in plastic with copper tails, these were houses wired on both 16th and 17th ed of regs, from what i remember of my 17th regs course/exam it removes the need for most supplementary bonding anyway?

 

[mark_mc]

I'm a fan of pipe in pipe back to manifolds no joints under floor

I think this system is brillant. I use the hepworth pipe and pipe and the upnonor soild floor foot. As you say no joints under the floor. Just have to put a bigger pump on as more pipework.

 

[WaterTight]

Welcome back Bernie!

I've missed your Hmmm! Has anyone here listened to Dr Karl's science phone-in on Radio 5 Live? If not the podcast is worth a listen (the show is on in the very early hours.) He usually begins every answer to ever question with Hmmmmmmmm!

 

[Sebastian Thoma]

Today, most homes have copper pipe plumbing systems for water distribution. Copper pipe is easier to work with than other metals like lead and iron, and it's relatively non-toxic. The availability and water-resistant properties of copper have made it the first choice for most homebuilders for the past century. But as new materials are developed and the price of copper increases, copper piping is no longer the first choice for plumbing systems.