Passable work or bodge job!?

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Passable work or bodge job!?

Discuss Passable work or bodge job!? in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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Keith O'KEEFFE

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19
Hi, just trying to get an opinion on some plumbing the bathroom/kitchen fitter is in the process of fitting for our new sink, shower & rad.

First pic is cold supply coming in through the wall from the toilet next door. There are double joists right under the stud wall, hence coming in hidden in the wall. Not keen on the speedfit joint.

Second pic shows the spaghetti junction of the remaining pipes. Of most concern is the copper radiator return pipe with the speedfit joint sitting on top of the joist!

Haven't spoken to the guy yet and I think the pipe is just about covered once he fills in the case but surely that joint will stop him from sticking the floorboard back on as I think it'll be proud of the wall.

Any advice gratefully received! Especially if there's a different way he can route it. Need to know if this is passable or I need to get him to rectify.

Cheers!

IMG_20190211_191144.jpg


IMG_20190211_191132.jpg
 
Just to point out here that I assumed the whole installation was by your plumber. If I was wrong I apologise.

If you require them to reconfigure existing pipework then you will, rightly, incur additional cost. That said, it should not be unreasonable and you will have a better safer installation as a consequence.
 
YorkshireDave said:
Just to point out here that I assumed the whole installation was by your plumber. If I was wrong I apologise.

If you require them to reconfigure existing pipework then you will, rightly, incur additional cost. That said, it should not be unreasonable and you will have a better safer installation as a consequence.
Click to expand...
Basically the bathroom and kitchen was first installed by different fitters and was a total bodge job. This guy has been sent to rectify and reinstall everything. The new Speedfit plastic pipe work wasn't done by this guy, he chased the radiator pipes into the wall and joined them to the existing pipes laid by the first fitters. Originally the cold water feed came straight in on plastic pipe in an arc, kinda 40 degrees or so and dropped under the floorboards, and just plastered over!

I do feel sorry for him as I'm braking his balls over everything given the first installation was a nightmare.
 
Riley said:
If he’s there to rectify then he will understand where you are coming from. Jut lots of “I know it’s not your fault but...” and tea goes a long way.
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All a bit frosty at the moment but not a total breakdown. We're all a bit stressed for obvious reasons. Them because they're picking up someone else's Rubbish and me because I have to make sure it's all done right this time. Thanks for all the replies and advice.
 
Harvest Fields said:
It might be worth a chat to explain what you expect and what they are doing. If they are a new company correcting someone else’s mess they should be cut a bit of slack to be fair.
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My thinking too, hence why I didn't go back and tell him to change the radiator flow and return pipes which curve. I reckon they'll be ok as the water pressure won't be as much as the hot/cold feeds to the shower. May come back and haunt me I know!
 
Are you on a sealed system?? Also as the pipes heat and cool they expand and contract this is equally disturbing to the o rings as the pipes will move. Albeit fractionally but it still moves
 
Riley said:
So it’s at a sealed system at a minimum of 1bar rising to 2-2.5 when hot. Up to you
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You've lost me on that one I'm afraid! In my mind the chances of one of the O rings popping is relatively small. Just want him to get on with the rest of the job. We're in a Victorian property, it's amazing to me all the little bodges and quick fixes hidden under the floorboards, the ceilings and walls! You can get too stressed over every minute detail of a job and it just ends up with a Soded off workman
 
Ok up to you but your heating could conceivably rise pressure wise to 2.5 bar which is likely higher than your incoming mains. For the sake of two elbows I’d change it. And the minute details as you call them can often be the difference between a good and a bad job
 
CBW1982 said:
In my honest opinion, I wouldn’t be concealing a speedfit joint. The copper to the radiator needs to be protected from corrosion and movement (clipped).

The water regulations state the following:

No pipe shall be embedded in any wall or solid floor without meeting certain conditions.

No pipe shall be installed in a way it may become unduly warmed.

https://www.wras.co.uk/downloads/pu...eral/para_7_guidance_version_2_july_2014.pdf/
Click to expand...

Since the original picture, the plastic feed coming into the room through the wall has been changed to copper and the Speedfit elbow dropping the pipe down is now soldered copper. It switches to plastic pipe once under the floor. The plastic joint on the right hand side of the radiator flow is now in the void between the joists. Only thing that will be buried now is soldered copper piping.
 
My opinion , 4o years experience.
1. Untidy pipes un supported
2. Yorkshire solder fittings .DIY in my book unless its in a tricky spot
3. If he wanted a job in my outfit..in the old days .he would
would have to improve
4. my boys would really have a go on a friday over a pint they are never backwards on coming fwds



5. However main test is will it leak it may not look pretty

Rob Foster aka centralheatking
 
"Copper water tubing has an outstanding history of corrosion resistance in most underground environments. Copper does not naturally corrode in most clays, chalks, loams, sands, and gravels. Certain aggressive soil conditions, however, can cause it to corrode. The basic prerequisite for corrosion is the presence of appreciable amounts of moisture. Other factors that can facilitate the corrosion process include soils having: (1) elevated concentrations of sulfate, chloride, ammonia compounds, or sulfide; (2) poor aeration, which supports anaerobic bacteria activity; (3) large amounts of organic or inorganic acid; and (4) large oxygen or neutral-salt (especially chloride) differentials."

In certain building materials, although lime is a constituent part, it may not be well mixed or indeed clumped. In these circumstances it can present as an acid to copper pipework.

Taken from www.copper.org
 
YorkshireDave said:
In certain building materials, although lime is a constituent part, it may not be well mixed or indeed clumped. In these circumstances it can present as an acid to copper pipework.
Click to expand...

I have always been under the impression that builder's lime is very caustic, i.e. alkali. In what circumstances does it become 'acidic'?

The only acidic lime I know is the evil green fruit...
 
That's strange because the same website recommends burying copper in lime chippings to act as a preservative.

There must be some reaction when the lime is mixed that makes it corrosive because natural lime isn't corrosive to copper at all, in fact copper artefacts have been found perfectly preserved in lime and they have been buried for hundreds of years.

I fully agree that copper should always be sleaved with felt at a minimum, but I've always done it on the basis it gives the copper an expansion gap and prolongs the life of the copper by reducing abrasion.
 
Craig Watson said:
That's strange because the same website recommends burying copper in lime chippings to act as a preservative.

There must be some reaction when the lime is mixed that makes it corrosive because natural lime isn't corrosive to copper at all, in fact copper artefacts have been found perfectly preserved in lime and they have been buried for hundreds of years.

I fully agree that copper should always be sleaved with felt at a minimum, but I've always done it on the basis it gives the copper an expansion gap and prolongs the life of the copper by reducing abrasion.
Click to expand...

You're right, its acidity that corrodes copper, hence areas with very soft water can have problems with copper pipe.

Looks like the issue with copper through cement is galvanic corrosion due to soluble chlorides in the vicinity of steel (e.g. rebar)

https://www.concreteconstruction.net/how-to/corrosion-of-copper-in-concrete_o
 
Personally, I feel all these formal tests simply fail to replicate the wonderfully infinite range of stupidity and lack of thought demonstrated by the human species. No matter what we look for, we can find evidence 'somewhere' for. Conversely, if we disagree we can find evidence 'somewhere' to back our arguments.

Perhaps all we can realistically do is to protect/do/carry on how 'we' see fit? It does make life extremely difficult when, like on here, we all wish to learn and improve but perhaps we just have to just get on a do what we believe in? Over time things will be proven and we'll all get 'better' at what we do. ;)
 
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