fully qualified plumber in two weeks.

[desrob]

have these so called plumbers damaged the industry,a straight YES or NO answers only,i have heard all the arguements ,some are genuine,hard working,good etc.it would be interesting aswell if you stated if you are an apprentice, qualified n.v.q level 2 & 3, or a fast tracker. my answer :YES. qualified level 3, through an apprenticeship

 

[GQuigley67]

the fact that you can get an ACS without any previous trade experience or any knowledge of a boiler or heating system, and legally be able to install one of these systems, is mad .. I don't think these people should be out on their own doin work like this, they should be supervised or working for someone else

 

[fuzzy]

you cannot obtain your acs without previous experience or quialifications. I dont know how dormouse has achieved it without the experience as this is not legal. My point is dont blame the qualification as theres nothing wrong with it, its the people misusing or misellng and misleading candidates who are to blame. hence my phrase 'loop hole'

 

[Dormouse]

Fuzzy, great reply... I wish it had been explained to me that way from the start !
Please anybody, don't assume I'm some sort of fly by night cowboy, I switched industries, I havn't just left school. I've spent over 15 years in transport/logistics starting at the bottom & progressing on to running my own recruitment agency. I'm quite aware of personal development which is why I'm doing the NVQ. I know a lot of guys that have done similar courses to me & jumped straight into the job head first..! I've seen the mistakes.. I don't want to repeat them.
FYI the course I did was ;
Gas Training Courses, Electrician & Plumbing Courses | Get Training
Read the first line...
I did the 'Get To Gas Full Time' course with six others, after that I was placed with a large heating company for 6 weeks doing social & private boiler/fire services & breakdowns @ 8 a day (about 200), then the next 12 weeks doing two or three installs a week (about 30) & some powerflushing. The next few months were spent voluntarily at manufacturers various training courses, Vaillant, Baxi, Honeywell, Vokera, Viessmann, Glow Worm etc.
This is extra that I have paid for, bearing in mind that I'm under no obligation to do so with my current quals.
At no point in time, considering the amount of industry proffessionals I met, did anyone tell me about an NVQ, I found this out by myself after completing my ACS.
Am I at fault here?
It's easy to point the finger at newbies & say they are incompetent but if not one single person in 8 months thought to mention that I might need some knowledge of water before I subscribed to this forum, including the large heating company, that sounds to me like an industry problem not an issue with individuals.
In the transport sector you can't just pass your driving test & jump into a petrol tanker, there are laws & systems in place to stop that from happening. Sorry for the long comment....

 

[Guest123]

In the transport sector you can't just pass your driving test & jump into a petrol tanker, there are laws & systems in place to stop that from happening.

I know which is a good thing. So why is the same law not in place for trades where peoples lives can be put at risk by incompitence?

Dormouse you are to be commended for realising that you need experience not just a qualification and for going out there and seeking it.

 

[fuzzy]

wasnt blaming you dormouse, quite the opposite, its the fault of the training provider who is using the qual in the wrong manner. i presume the comapny didnt really care or they were being paid?

point to note, you dont need water quals to do gas? if you want to get into gas the recognised qual is a gas nvq, the acs is the last assessment you should take not the first

 

[fagsanbooz]

I know which is a good thing. So why is the same law not in place for trades where peoples lives can be put at risk by incompitence?

Dormouse you are to be commended for realising that you need experience not just a qualification and for going out there and seeking it.

Agree with you, system 3. Dormouse sounds like he's conscientious and wants to do the right thing. There are these courses that you do not need qualifications for but,... they were originally designed for people in the trade without the certificates but with a great deal of experience (i.e. Plumbers mates etc) However, me thinks some dodgy dealings are afoot with the training 'cowboys', I hear one such company on talksport all the time saying 'change career' etc

 

[fuzzy]

well said, the training providers are misleading i feel. i post the facts and im called negative,its not negative its factual

 

[desrob]

well said, the training providers are misleading i feel. i post the facts and im called negative,its not negative its factual

i think your great

 

[REDSAW]

Hope i didnt miss-read the training provider there,
but it states the course is for experienced plumbers?.

How did you get on the gas course or are they short cutting their own standards for ££££?

 

[tamz]

How did you get on the gas course or are they short cutting their own standards for ££££?

Sruely not!

 

[fuzzy]

Hope i didnt miss-read the training provider there,
but it states the course is for experienced plumbers?.

How did you get on the gas course or are they short cutting their own standards for ££££?

thats the point i keep trying to make, cheers redsaw, i though i was the only one seeing it

 

[Guest123]

thats the point i keep trying to make, cheers redsaw, i though i was the only one seeing it

Fuzzy, I thoroughly agree with you, it's the training providers who offer false promises of megabucks earnings that are to blame. But, candidates must shoulder some of the blame too, as do these people seriously believe that they can gain a qualification/profession in only 2 weeks!? Many of these have came from completely unrelated professions and have formerly undergone lengthy training in order to perform that profession. Why do they think that plumbing, gas fitting, electrics etc. should be any different? Some are looking for what they think is an easy and profitable way out of their current mundane careers (clever marketing by the training providers does this), and others are just trying to get a career after being thrown on the scrap heap due to age, banking crisis, or any other factors.
However before I spend two grand (or whatever it costs these days) on a training course, I'd put in a little research first to find out if the claims of the training centres are in fact true and if it's worth spending all that money. The easiest way of course is to ask others who've actually been on one of these courses. I'd also be soul searching and being honest with myself and asking if I'm actually capable of carrying out my training in the real world safely and to a professional standard. I'd doubt it if in two weeks anyone is capable of either.

 

[GQuigley67]

i didnt start doing work until mid way through my 2nd year, before that i was just the tea boy and tool/material fetcher but obviously seeing how it was done properly

 

[Guest123]

i didnt start doing work until mid way through my 2nd year, before that i was just the tea boy and tool/material fetcher but obviously seeing how it was done properly

Same here. You watch and learn while on the job, not sitting in a classroom, then your only allowed to work when your tradesman/company thinks your capable. I served much of my time doing leadwork on roofs as well as domestic plumbing, so I consider myself lucky to have the best of both worlds.

 

[GQuigley67]

took me about a year to get used to the names of tools, different pipe sizes( I worked commercial so there were alot of different pipe sizes) and the names of fittings etc etc. I got the knowledge of both worlds though domestic and commercial plumbing n heating, but not so much lead just done that in college abso hated it. Only thing I didnt get a crack at myself was Arc welding for the commercial boiler houses

 

[Plum Bob 66]

Dear All

I have watched these post over the last few days and to be fair all I can conclude is that the £5k I spent on training to become a plumber was money flushed down the proverbial.

I enroled with New Career skills based out of Southhampton & Doncaster and attended over the last 16 months 4 training weeks whlst completing a portfolio based arround tutor marked assesments and coursework. Apologies if my earlier posts re qaulifications seemed a little naive.

I have serious issues with NCS which I will be taking further. That said I would be grateful if you could give me the best advice as which course I should now get myself on in order to further my knowledge base. As I went self employed December 09, this would have to be on a part basis.I feel sure given what I have read any advice in reply will be of use to others following this thread.

Plum Bob

 

[fuzzy]

what do you have currently plum bob?

 

[desrob]

what do you have currently plum bob?

conscience !

 

[REDSAW]

thats the point i keep trying to make, cheers redsaw, i though i was the only one seeing it

no problem m8...

<<<<------------- you may thank me here.... or not

 

[REDSAW]

if it's worth spending all that money. The easiest way of course is to ask others who've actually been on one of these courses. I'd also be soul searching and being honest with myself and asking if I'm actually capable of carrying out my training in the real world safely and to a professional standard.

sounds like the sales reps pitch there, to see if you really are suitable for taking up one of their places;-(so you sit there nodding your head ten-to-the penny in agreement for the £60k pa licence).

but they fail to mention;- I'd doubt it if in two weeks anyone is capable of either.lol.

 

[Plum Bob 66]

Hi Fuzzy

Well basically it just water regs through Bpec and 6128 unvented, I read your earlier replys which more or less stated they were less than useless and not plumbing qauls, but isnt that laughable when they came with the NCS course. As also stated doing my part P defined scope end of March. I dont want keep sailing off into the deluded blue yonder thinking I get by with the basics because you cant and yes I have a conscience. I came from a catering background to "retrain" and in the 27 years I was a chef I gained every City and guilds qaul going and had the same thougts as you guys when some whippersnapper entered the Industry and became a Head chef after 2 years. Hope you understand the analogy here. Theres no replacement for experience and every job I go to I learn something new, but I want the paper work to go with it. Believe it or not my route isnt the easy route! I never set out in this Industry to put time served noses out of joint, just make a living doing the job as dilligently as possible.
Bob.

 

[jimbo.1234]

Is there anyone who knows how to get some sample questions fpr my acs i have it booked for friday. I am bricking it.

 

[fagsanbooz]

Is there anyone who knows how to get some sample questions fpr my acs i have it booked for friday. I am bricking it.

Wouldn't worry about the theory too much, open book etc but the practical is where i would swot up on! all the processes, procedures, techniques and basic safety checks for everything etc

 

[jase158]

I did my training at college and did the fast track for my nvq,

No they are Not destroying the industry, The Plumbers who will not take on an apprentice, Is ruining the industry, I sent 160 letters to plumbers, offering to work for free to gain experience and received a disgraceful 10 replies all saying NO. How am I suppose to learn if nobody will take me on.

I learnt all the building regs, i.e. at college.

But the 2 weeks courses are actually 10 weeks. This is 50 days. College have 2 days a week over 24 weeks, equalling 48 days so you work it out.

The NVQ is 6 visits on site, which is exactly the same as in college.

For me there is no different, except that the college is all a bunch of 16-18 year olds who do not want to be there, and they have had it all free.
Training centres are all people who actually want to be there and have paid for their course so there is about 30 per cent more training time.

 

[GQuigley67]

because during your apprenticeship college was boring you'd rather be on site doing the work

 

[REDSAW]

Is there anyone who knows how to get some sample questions fpr my acs i have it booked for friday. I am bricking it.

left it a little late havnt we?.
join the viper site about £49, you can then have free access to print of a myriad of ccn1 q's and books.

 

[tamz]

I'll give you a question and see if you can answer it without looking it up. It is one of the most important things you should know. I'll make the question slightly harder than you will be asked but it reflects what you'll find in the real world more.

Old open flue boiler, 60000btu, fitted in a cupboard next to the back door. What size vents? (all options)

 

[fuzzy]

trick question tamz, its in a cupboard????????????

 

[dontknowitall]

I'll give you a question and see if you can answer it without looking it up. It is one of the most important things you should know. I'll make the question slightly harder than you will be asked but it reflects what you'll find in the real world more.

Old open flue boiler, 60000btu, fitted in a cupboard next to the back door. What size vents? (all options)

Great question!! It was easy when I sat the exam because I'd looked in the book that day. Must admit I can't remember but I know the diagram I'm to look at and know which book it's in!

Now, this next part is purely voluntary and I'll try to have a look in my book before I come back here ... so for my interest ...

Hazarding a guess, there was a number of 583?? and you have to have two lots of air going in and one going out, if you see what I mean. If I HAD to put one in tomorrow and had no access to my books I'd be putting two of those 100mm2 vents in.

I'll see how correct I am when I return.

 

[fuzzy]

I did my training at college and did the fast track for my nvq,

No they are Not destroying the industry, The Plumbers who will not take on an apprentice, Is ruining the industry, I sent 160 letters to plumbers, offering to work for free to gain experience and received a disgraceful 10 replies all saying NO. How am I suppose to learn if nobody will take me on.

I learnt all the building regs, i.e. at college.

But the 2 weeks courses are actually 10 weeks. This is 50 days. College have 2 days a week over 24 weeks, equalling 48 days so you work it out.

The NVQ is 6 visits on site, which is exactly the same as in college.

For me there is no different, except that the college is all a bunch of 16-18 year olds who do not want to be there, and they have had it all free.
Training centres are all people who actually want to be there and have paid for their course so there is about 30 per cent more training time.

apprenticeships are day release 8 hours for 36 weeks a year and for 4 years, now you do the maths. Poor advice leads to incorrect decisions, your post is not only incorrect but dangerous for people wnating to train as they need the correct facts

why do you think people must take you on??