Dual solid fuel heating/ho****er system....ideas plz

[alphamike1]

Hi guys a friend of mine is retiring to France. Bought himself a nice little piece of tranquility in Normandy...lucky him! hes currently converting a barn and wants a heating/hot-water system based on a solid fuel range and separate wood burner both with back boilers. Now he cant get a plumber in France until next April :/ and hes determined to install his own. Ive cobbled together a design for him but this is not really my thing. I was hoping for a few comments on the design. issues or better setup ideas. if i don't give him something to go off he will try to do it himself and im pretty sure he will end up hurting himself.

From the pic u can see its its a twin indirect tank with mains pressure hot water. the primary circuit is pumped with a rad circuit. secondary is gravity as he wont be using it much at all.

flaming welcome..better ideas appreciated!

[DLMURL]https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/842x595q90/912/w3yPOt.jpg[/DLMURL]

 

[alphamike1]

hmm it wont let me post a picture :s

[DLMURL]https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/842x595q90/912/w3yPOt.jpg[/DLMURL]

 

[Best]

Hello & Welcome. No picture is posted.
Are you a heating engineer? Your friend really needs someone who is experienced in solid fuel link ups to do the job, or at the very least to give him precise instructions. Why worry about him if he is stupid enough to attempt it himself?

 

[alphamike1]

hmm thought ide put a link to the picture, here it is again:

[DLMURL]https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/842x595q90/912/w3yPOt.jpg[/DLMURL]

i agree, he should but he will do it anyway. and i do worry as hes a friend. as anyone would!

 

[Worcester]

Give him 'advice' as a friend and when it blows up and kills him, his wife will sue you as the 'designer'.

Both are uncontrolled heating sources and need all the appropriate controls, get a BPEC/HETAS certified person to design it for him.

There are so many controls and safety devices missing from the hydraulic layout posted, I'm not even going to start to list them. What you have there is a potential killer.

 

[Reg Man]

This could result in a very dangerous project. Uncontrolled heat source on an unvented is a big no. Must be separated with a thermal store and control the unvented system from the stored heat.

 

[tamz]

I believe it is allowed on the continent but not the way you are showing. You need various safety controls. That design is a death trap.

Tell him to either go with an open system or consult a pro over there. It might save his life.

 

[Reg Man]

The UK way is most likely the safest.

 

[kris]

Hi there alpha mike ..... Its bad enough 2 uncontrollable heat sources but all into an unvented, , defo something that would need to be designed by a pro, no high or low limit stats or nothing on that diagram and when hot water gets up to temp theres no where for the heat to disapate to,,,i know youve a heat leak rad but still,,,,, get your friend to seek professional french hetas advice as in systems like this he really needs to go by safety procedures,

 

[tamz]

No hetas in France Kris and that type setup (properly done) is coming to a house near you in the future.

 

[kris]

Yeah i know its only here i just ment french version if there is one lol

 

[kris]

Ive actually done link up systems tamz with the dunsley nuetralisers and it was a 30kw multi fuel the last one i did , linked to oil boiler , brilliant system , folks are saving a fortune,

 

[tamz]

There are lots of systems being fitted in the uk illegally atm by so called experts in the field who charge an arm and a leg because they can get the grants.
I've got a new build i won't sign off (certifier of construction is another bow on my string) on the solid fuel.
I've told BC and the client and the "pr ick" who thinks he knows how to fit a stove why i won't, which BC wasn't aware of and would have signed off if it was left to him as he didn't know any better.
But i do! so it will be getting altered at a great inconvenience and expense which could have been avoided if the "pr ick " had listened to me when he was 1st fixing :lol:

 

[kris]

My customers usually get the company that supply the stoves to fit them at least there fitted properly but i know what you mean, still loads of plonks out there that dont know you need to be qualified to fit a stove ,

 

[Best]

Was extremely common over here in N.I. to have solid fuel linked to an automatic boiler, usually oil. In fact, it became a bit of a fad. A lot of people wanted an open fire linked to their heating. Yet most of them rarely used it. Someone in the countryside with a store of logs was a different story.
I am talking about 34 years ago & onwards, with most joined to twin coil cylinders & then later the Baker unit (later called Dunsley) method.
Many of them are done by idiots with little or no regard for pumped circuits going into other boiler, or heat gravitating into unused fire. It became so easy to do it right.
I remember one middle aged plumber took advice on how to do a Dunsley system, then disagreed with the advice, did it his own way & then asked for advice again because it didn't work. Turned out he hadn't used a pump on the oil circuit & still argued it wasn't needed. Unbelieveable the cheek of some guys.

 

[tamz]

This one i did the house plumbing and rads leaving tails for the specialists to connect to. As i'm not on the MCS list they got a "reputable" company in to do the wood burner and stove and the 1000ltr akvatherm.
I've even got the manu's on my side after i mentioned the fly by sign off which i was lucky enough to be on site for.
Maybe they will learn something from this one.

 

[Best]

This one i did the house plumbing and rads leaving tails for the specialists to connect to. As i'm not on the MCS list they got a "reputable" company in to do the wood burner and stove and the 1000ltr akvatherm.
I've even got the manu's on my side after i mentioned the fly by sign off which i was lucky enough to be on site for.
Maybe they will learn something from this one.

Sometimes nice to see a "reputable" company suddenly get a bad reputation. :smile:

 

[tamz]

Sometimes nice to see a "reputable" company suddenly get a bad reputation. :smile:

They picked the wrong numpty plumber on this one :lol:

 

[alphamike1]

Hi guys thanks for the comments, the picture represents a basic overview of the pipework. Ofc there are safety controls and various other controls missing from the picture. This is something im getting advice on on his behalf. As you guys have pointed out there should be a pro designing this system. however he wont pay for one and will put something in place with or without help. As his friend im just trying to come up with something that wouldn't blow up on him. Ive barely managed to convince him to use copper instead of plastic. I know no one would put there name to something like this and understand your reluctance to suggest anything other than "get a pro in" but any direct advice on this is appreciated!
He has one twin indirect tank and hes using that regardless of any help i give him...so im going to do the best i can giving him some he can put in place that wont hurt him...just maybe use more water than it should. Every circuit will be vented or some sort of pressure relief will be in the system to stop overheating/exploding. The rad system is 5 large old cast iron rads which will automatically turn on when the tank reaches temp. his house is an old brick walled barn with no insulation. he will probably not even use the range unless its winter as he has an lpg cooker. The wood burner is quite small, Tbh ill be surprised if this ever reaches a dangerous temp!

Again all your comments are much appreciated!

 

[Silent Dancer]

Do yourself a favour and tell your friend that an uncontrolled heat source on a sealed system without is a bomb.
As others have said by doing a design you are liable for any failiure of the system. In the UK as a result you could end up facing manslaughter charges if there was fatalities.

 

[MarkOil]

Some people only want the advice they want to hear I feel.