Am I responsible for adding isolation valves to old installs?

[Keefy]

If, for example I change a pair of taps (bath, basin whatever) for a customer is it my responsibility to also fit isolation valves if there were none there before to bring it up to current standards so-to-speak?

If I were to have a customer refuse my advice on fitting some then I'd feel like I hadn't done a proper job - obviously not through any fault of my own.

 

[Rickster123]

I've always preferred to fit them mate. But if they don't want them then fair enough. Customer is king.... Till they've paid!

 

[Derek Hardman]

Our staff are told...Keep the standards or refuse the job.

 

[secret squirrel]

If the customer doesn't want to pay you can't make them, the choice is walk away, do the job the way the customer wants or work for free.

Unfortunately, I am self employed and would do it the way the customer wants it but note it on the invoice.

 

[Keefy]

I've always preferred to fit them mate. But if they don't want them then fair enough. Customer is king.... Till they've paid!

Same here but if a customer decides they don't want to pay a few quid more for a couple of valves then what do you do; tell them you'll do them a favour and fit them anyway without further charge or just price accordingly in case they're needed?

Haven't had a problem with anyone getting into a huff about any unforseen extras but that situation may well come about one day. Suppose I could give them two prices, one for a straight swap and another (+ cost of valves) if they have no means of quick isolation.

 

[clarky101]

You can only advise...like a lot in the plumbing world, customers are watching the pennys nowadays...

 

[AWheating]

just ask the customer if they want them. if its a very hard to reach situation then you may not want to try anyway as it can cause problems.

 

[lame plumber]

push fit flexis with built in isolators , luckly I can jog away at speed nowadays, for the time being any how.

 

[Dotty]

sell the benefits of them, especially the reduced risk of air locks in the future

 

[Keefy]

Think I'm leaning towards refusing to carry out the work unless they accept my advice on doing a proper job. My way or nothing I suppose, not like I'd have to resort to that kind of action on a regular basis but it's just a 'what if' scenario really.

 

[AWheating]

its good to want to do things bang to the book. sometimes its better to be able to have rice with your curry.

 

[Keefy]

its good to want to do things bang to the book. sometimes its better to be able to have rice with your curry.

I'm a stickler for doing things by the book though, I mean I've flatly refused to fit those B&Q outside tap kits a few times and the customer said 'okay, bye' - which was fine with me. I think once you drop you're standards you're on a road to ruin.

I'll have a nose through some regs to see if there's anything that says you must bring the plumbing up to date when carrying out work on old fittings. Doubt it but I'll have a look.

 

[stevetheplumber]

ive always found the road to ruin is not doing what the customer wants to pay for

 

[TBServices]

There's no requirement for iso valves anywhere but before a float operated valve. Your worrying about nothing. Personally I think they're rubbish

 

[plumber0808]

Cant see the point, if they ain't got them I'm not bothered.
I ain't fitted one in my house to noisy and restrictive unless you fit the full bore ones that are to expensive.

every time I turn one they leak anyway.

 

[on31ll]

Save a few quid my price would be the same. If they said oh i dont want the isos i wouldnt take off £2 off the price !

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I will say best practise is,
if its a low pressure only then min service valves
if its high pressure then min service valves , best practise service valve and nrv
mix pressure must put nrv and service valves

 

[tamz]

Generally in a domestic situation ie your average 3 bed semi you don't need servicing valves but it could be considered good practice.

The regs state (i'm quoting from the Scottish bylaws which are probably slightly different from the shires the right way)

"Water supply systems shall be capable of being drained down and be fitted with an adequate number of servicing valves and drain taps so as to minimise the discharge of water when water fittings are maintained or replaced.
A sufficient number of stopvalves shall be installed for isolating parts of the pipework."

Now that doesn't mean you need to fit a valve before every appliance. Turn the main stopcock or gate valve at the cwsc off and you will get nothing. Turn the hot supply off and you get a few pints at most.

There is no requirement to fit service valves other than
16. (1) Every pipe supplying water connected to a storage cistern shall be fitted with an effective adjustable valve capable of shutting off the inflow of water at a suitable level below the overflowing level of the cistern.
(2) Every inlet to a storage cistern, combined feed and expansion cistern, WC flushing cistern or urinal flushing cistern shall be fitted with a servicing valve on the inlet pipe adjacent to the cistern.Every inlet to a storage cistern, combined feed and expansion cistern, WC flushing cistern or urinal flushing cistern shall be fitted with a servicing valve on the inlet pipe adjacent to the cistern.
(3) Every storage cistern, except one supplying water to the primary circuit of a heating system, shall be fitted with a servicing valve on the outlet pipe.(which excludes heating header tanks¿!)

30. Every pipe which conveys water to a drinking vessel for animals or poultry shall be fitted with – (b) a stopvalve or servicing valve as appropriate.

Chris will probably pull me up on this as this is his specialist subject and i'm just a poor plumber :lol:

 

[Reg Man]

The Water Supply (water fittings) Regulations 1999, Regulation 3, Waste, misuse, Undue consumption or contamination? Ask your self, if I don't fit a service valve to these taps, does it contribute to any of the for-mentioned. OK the recommendation say's fit service valves, but its up to the legal community to prove that you have contravened the regulations.

 

[dean.diy]

Why ask, are they noticed after fitting. These jobs must stand the cost of an iso valve. If the customer's a regular you have the benefit on the next washer change or whatever. I waited for 1/2 hour today on a downstairs hot tap to drain down ( no iso fitted).

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Why ask, are they noticed after fitting. These jobs must stand the cost of an iso valve. If the customer's a regular you have the benefit on the next washer change or whatever. I waited for 1/2 hour today on a downstairs hot tap to drain down ( no iso fitted).

should have turn the cold water of from the loft or if iso there does not work should have run bath on full then just hot on kitchen

 

[SimonG]

I always fit them as a matter of routine, the cust wouldn't get it any cheaper if I didn't fit them. Makes my life easier

 

[dean.diy]

evening safegas. Everything was shut off. The monobloc slowly seeped the water in the pipe from upstairs imm heater, for half hour after taking out cartridge.