Do you think I'm qualified??

[Dave'o]

Hi all...first post so be gentle...

With some many discussions about fast track courses...I'm just after some of your opinions whether you think I'm a qualified Gas Engineer?

I have completed a BPEC Gas Foundation course which consisted of 26 days (1 day a week) of theory and practical covering: General gas safety training... installation of pipework, installation and maintenance of boilers, cookers, fires, warm air units and water heaters.

The requirement of passing the course (other than final exams) as a Cat 3 entrance (no formal plumbing qualification) is to show 140 days of photographic evidence of practical on-site jobs covering all appliances and services. i.e :

boiler service = 1/2 day
gas fire install = 1 day
boiler repair = 1 day
central heating install = 5 days ..... and so on..

In total it has taken me around 12 months working 5 days a week on-site to complete this portfolio and for everything to be signed off and finished.

It took another 3 months working while waiting until I felt comfortable to book my ACS exams.

I am now crrently sitting my ACS: CCN1, CENWAT, CPA1, HTR1 & CKR1

I have now passed my CCN1 theory today...and the CCN1 practical and modules commences next week (which I'm quite confidence I'll pass)

Here's the question....after 15 months work experience, BPEC Gas Foundation and ACS qualification. Do you think I'd be classed as a reputable Gas Engineer....or simply a "fast tracker" ??...or even maybe something in between?

Any feedback will be appreciated.

Dave

 

[Dave'o]

Is he not basically got the same now as what you would get doing an apprenticship at british gas? obviously hes done it in 15 months instead of 3 years I am sure bg course is only 3 years he is now a service engineer with no knowledge at all on plumbing systems.
This is were there guys are so he actually has done not too bad in 15 months on qual front and I would say 15 months is enough time to pick up the basics in gas after all most of the big plumbing firms only put there apprentices on the gas side of things to learn in there 4th year.
You have done well but will be limited to what you will understand on the different systems as you never went through the plumbing/heating route.
I would in my opinion still class this as fast track as I think all gas engineers should no the plumbing/heating systems inside out which you wont if you havent done plumbing.

good luck

Unfortunately...apprenticeships are few and far between theses days. I would have jumped at the chance of such an opportunity. I get a sense that "fast trackers" get judged far too quickly...assumed that all want to cut corners and make as much money as fast as possible. I feel options is key...and there isn't much out there.

I feel this was the correct and only option for me and I'm very happy with my decision...I'm not saying I'm ready to go out on my own..far from it. (even though my employer, tutor, accessor all think I am more that capable)

I just feel a bit disheartened as no matter how good I am at my job, I will always be trying to prove myself to others. As there's no real method of knowing "good" from "bad"...It's just assumed I'm/we're bad because the fact we're classed as "fast trackers"

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Unfortunately...apprenticeships are few and far between theses days. I would have jumped at the chance of such an opportunity. I get a sense that "fast trackers" get judged far too quickly...assumed that all want to cut corners and make as much money as fast as possible. I feel options is key...and there isn't much out there.

I feel this was the correct and only option for me and I'm very happy with my decision...I'm not saying I'm ready to go out on my own..far from it. (even though my employer, tutor, accessor all think I am more that capable)

I just feel a bit disheartened as no matter how good I am at my job, I will always be trying to prove myself to others. As there's no real method of knowing "good" from "bad"...It's just assumed I'm/we're bad because the fact we're classed as "fast trackers"

you wont be trying to prove yourself to anyone except your self the best tool you can posses is a conscience,if you have this,worry about what you have done that day you will go far in the gas industry,good luck

 

[Dave'o]

you wont be trying to prove yourself to anyone except your self the best tool you can posses is a conscience,if you have this,worry about what you have done that day you will go far in the gas industry,good luck

Thanks Gas Man

A bit of positivity is always nice

 

[fuzzy]

id like to say yes but finding it difficult. your definately qualified as you have the certificates but lets be honest you lack experience, theres a reason all trainees into trades have been 4 years minimum for centuries, now we feel 18 months in a centre is enough
sorry but id say no, may be worth telling others thinking of paying lots of money out

 

[darrenangel]

If you have been doing heating /plumbing for less than five years then i gauge you as apprentice then improver ,in all honesty have not got time of day for anyone who never left school to be a plumber ,,,,but thats just my opinion of fast track .

I'm glad the majority of sane individuals don't share your narrow minded outlook on life and career choices. If what you believed in was followed through to its natural conclusion, then anyone leaving school would only be able to work in the same profession for life. Not everyone at 16 or 18 know what they want to do for the rest of their working life. Even if they do, people get made redundant, circumstances change, are you saying these people should just go on the dole, rather than re-train and provide for their family's. Or is it you just don't want people joining your precious plumbing industry. If people join the industry and they aren't competant, then they won't last long, but that is their choice. Get that chip off your shoulder and stop behaving like a dinosaur.

 

[fuzzy]

I'm glad the majority of sane individuals don't share your narrow minded outlook on life and career choices. If what you believed in was followed through to its natural conclusion, then anyone leaving school would only be able to work in the same profession for life. Not everyone at 16 or 18 know what they want to do for the rest of their working life. Even if they do, people get made redundant, circumstances change, are you saying these people should just go on the dole, rather than re-train and provide for their family's. Or is it you just don't want people joining your precious plumbing industry. If people join the industry and they aren't competant, then they won't last long, but that is their choice. Get that chip off your shoulder and stop behaving like a dinosaur.

If they are not competent they could kill someone. Your view of just letting anyone loose on the trade would be the end of all control in soceity never mind plumbing and gas.

Nothing wrong with people joining what ever their age, age is not an issue, not getting qualified and getting half quals without experience and calling yourself a trades person is an issue.

You try to turn it round to an age thing, your self pity will not win anyone over or make propr tradepeople feel sorry for you

 

[darrenangel]

Fuzzy, sorry if I wasn't clear. I don't think anyone should be allowed to trade without the relevant qualifications. The point I was making was in reply to Gaspastamamia who said he doesn't have any respect for anyone that doesn't leave school and go straight into plumbing. I didn't bring up the age issue, I was just replying to that comment.

 

[franky]

I can understand Gaspastamamia point it would be hard for us to go, sod it I'll go and be a surgeon try and find a 15 month course for that. if its a case of adults leaving other jobs there should be better training facilities for them. Collages are ripping people off it should be government run and over a longer time frame

 

[Dave'o]

I can understand Gaspastamamia point it would be hard for us to go, sod it I'll go and be a surgeon try and find a 15 month course for that. if its a case of adults leaving other jobs there should be better training facilities for them. Collages are ripping people off it should be government run and over a longer time frame

You're not seriously comparing gas with surgery are you??

Fortunately, people in the gas industry have Gas Safety manuals, MI, Technical advice and the Internet to refer too...as long as the gas safety fundamentals are in practice I see no problems..we don't have to commit ourselves to anything we don't feel comfortable/competent about doing...as long as we leave life and property in a safe condition we can always turn our backs on a job.

Saying that... do agree there are some serious problems with regulating some so called training facility who only see the £ signs.

I done my training at Leicester College at a fraction of the cost some training facility were offering and they were not going to let any Tom, Dick or Harry pass if they didn't think they were competent to do so.

Well..here's to a life long road of learning and improvement

 

[gaspastemania]

I'm glad the majority of sane individuals don't share your narrow minded outlook on life and career choices. If what you believed in was followed through to its natural conclusion, then anyone leaving school would only be able to work in the same profession for life. Not everyone at 16 or 18 know what they want to do for the rest of their working life. Even if they do, people get made redundant, circumstances change, are you saying these people should just go on the dole, rather than re-train and provide for their family's. Or is it you just don't want people joining your precious plumbing industry. If people join the industry and they aren't competant, then they won't last long, but that is their choice. Get that chip off your shoulder and stop behaving like a dinosaur.

Nowhere have i said that anyone should go on the dole i am stating that the reason you have apprenticeships is to develope your trade .There are many cowboys out there and in my experience most have come from fast track courses learnt plumbing/gas within 12 months. Its unfair on the public that these people are let loose on there homes never mind blagging there way into other companies with false refs etc.Apprentices make mistakes fast trackers make BIG mistakes which can be costly which is why i wont sub or ask for extra pair of hands on works unless i know that they have 5 years experience which your are guaranteed from full training and not some quick fix guide.
Mistakes in this trade can be costly !!!1Have seem some funny ones tho from fast trackers so can be good comedy value so has its plus points.

 

[GQuigley67]

from an employers point of view, if you employ someone with not the correct quals, and something goes wrong then your in trouble for employing them if it ever has to go to court, because they are not qualified for the job. This is why these qualifications are useless but they make you believe that in this space of time you are competent to go out and work on your own which imho your not, as you WILL make mistakes everyone does, apprentices get away with them because they have the experienced guys with them, but if your a fast tracker going out on your own after doing that 6129 thing thinking your a qualified plumber well your wrong

 

[gaspastemania]

Spot on quigley i have worked as supervisor on several sites over the years and sacked these guy s for to many costly mistakes only to see them in sign written vans month later . I can only presume these guys are training themselves unsuper vised in customers precious homes ,toooooooo dodgy if you ask me .

 

[khill]

I have read this thread with great interest, I have been in this industry for over 23 years, I was an apprentice for 4 years and started off fitting sectional boilers the type you can walk into, I have worked on commercial oil/gas, new build 1st/2nd fix, refurbishment projects, domestic central heating installations, heating for koi ponds, artesian wells along the River Thames. In those early years I came across some right old characters. I hated them to start but I look back now with admiration, well if I try and forget about the time they held me down and smothered my knackers in boss white! Oh and the time I got a lump hammer thrown at me for doing something wrong, Oh and the time they locked me in a cellar….lol, What a steep learning curve, you wouldn’t get away with that now you would end in an employment tribunal. But even those old guys made mistakes, there was the time one of them blew himself up because he didn’t purge the gas pipe before cutting it with a cutting torch and ended up breaking his arm. We had a trophy that was made up of a 2” shaped piece of copper with two brass ball floats brazed on each side named the “Cock Up Cup”, which was awarded at every Christmas party…great times! I have seen some major changes in over twenty years I have been in this game, some for the better some for the worst, but for me I can honestly say I am still learning, everyday is different, I have got to meet some great characters, I have seen some shocking installs from so called qualified and time served engineers and I have seen some magical ones, which have been a pleasure to the eye! The man who trained me gave me a great bit of advice “If you can walk away from a job and hand on heart say that you would be totally happy with that install in your house then you are on the right track!” I have heard so many fitters turn round and say “Well I can’t see it from my house!” …great work ethic.

experience....expereience.....experience.....experience

Sorry Dave for going off track, mate I can understand what some of the guys are saying, but keep on going, gain as much experience as you can and listen to you piers especially the older guys they would have forgotten as much as you have learnt, sorry that was not meant to sound patronising. I hope you enjoy your choice of career as much as I have and if after 23 years you can still wake up in the morning and go to work with a smile on you face you know you have made the right choice!

 

[fuzzy]

I can understand Gaspastamamia point it would be hard for us to go, sod it I'll go and be a surgeon try and find a 15 month course for that. if its a case of adults leaving other jobs there should be better training facilities for them. Collages are ripping people off it should be government run and over a longer time frame

How are colleges ripping people off? They are much cheaper than private providers?

 

[fagsanbooz]

After 30 years in the industry I know plenty of plumbers and heating engineers that went through the apprenticeship system and i also know a lot of guys that changed career and chose plumbing. The apprenticeship system is a better method but, there are loads of really good plumbers i know that changed career in their 20's, 30's and 40's and do a a decent job. Most of these done the old evening classes (2 nights a week for 3 or 4 years) at colleges. Admittedly they took longer to establish themselves due to lack of experience but are doing ok.
BTW, anyone who says or makes out they know it all in the trade are ...........pants on fire!!!

 

[Dave'o]

from an employers point of view, if you employ someone with not the correct quals, and something goes wrong then your in trouble for employing them if it ever has to go to court, because they are not qualified for the job. This is why these qualifications are useless but they make you believe that in this space of time you are competent to go out and work on your own which imho your not, as you WILL make mistakes everyone does, apprentices get away with them because they have the experienced guys with them, but if your a fast tracker going out on your own after doing that 6129 thing thinking your a qualified plumber well your wrong

Spot on quigley i have worked as supervisor on several sites over the years and sacked these guy s for to many costly mistakes only to see them in sign written vans month later . I can only presume these guys are training themselves unsuper vised in customers precious homes ,toooooooo dodgy if you ask me .

Thanks for your replies guys but I feel you're straying slightly.

My original post was for some opinions from some experienced guys in the Gas Industry about my progression as a Gas Engineer.

I'm not saying I'm done learning or that I've reached the peek of my experience needed.

I was taken on as a trainee..passed my Gas Foundation and now my ACS and wondered what that really meant in the grander scale of things as it only took me 15 months.

I wouldn't say my particular route was as "fast track" as some courses are advertising but also not as long as a full "apprenticeship" either...these are just labels to me...I was taken under the wing of a Gas Engineer who's been in the industry with just under 50 years experience and picked nearly all my knowledge through him.

I can't help but be offended sometimes with some quotes like:

I can only presume these guys are training themselves unsuper vised in customers precious homes ,toooooooo dodgy if you ask me .

as I feel this is directed personally to me.

Sorry if I'm just being over sensitive...It's only my first post.

 

[fagsanbooz]

cos it's your post you probably feel there all for you? don't be too disappointed to find out some are generic and aimed at answering others posts!! The very fact your asking is a good indication of how conscientious you are, you've also been doing this whilst working in the trade being taught and guided by experienced pros!! Most so called 'fast-trackers' don't get this valuable experience! so your doing fine in my book.

 

[sdsparks]

Dave'o I'm another fast tracker getting a bit sick of the bad press on this site, of course it's not the best way but at 30 years old what option do I have. It seems the only way to be respected is to be treated like crap for years when your 16 earning next to nothing when all you care about is getting drunk and laid at the weekend! It seems being a mature reliable professional who wants to learn isn't of the right ilk.

I have recently finished my C&G level 2 & 3 with Gas which took 5 months, 5 days a week 8am till 4pm, recently completed my NVQ level 2 and putting my gas portfolio together as we speak which I certainly don't want to rush it as I want to pass knowing I won't be putting lives in danger.

Since finishing I have been working with different plumbers as well as for myself. Whilst working for myself I have seen lots of bad installations. For example I had a central heating system the other day that needed to be piped up with bypass to stop kettling, clearly stated this in manual but who ever installed it couldn't read, probably a fast tracker although not sure they existed when it was installed so who knows who done it!

I'm learning on every job and would not dream of calling myself a fully fledged plumber, all I want to do like yourself is succeed in my new chosen career without everyone putting me down along the way.

Sounds like you are doing really well and I wish you all the best for the future, keep up the good work

 

[desrob]

Hi all...first post so be gentle...

With some many discussions about fast track courses...I'm just after some of your opinions whether you think I'm a qualified Gas Engineer?

I have completed a BPEC Gas Foundation course which consisted of 26 days (1 day a week) of theory and practical covering: General gas safety training... installation of pipework, installation and maintenance of boilers, cookers, fires, warm air units and water heaters.

The requirement of passing the course (other than final exams) as a Cat 3 entrance (no formal plumbing qualification) is to show 140 days of photographic evidence of practical on-site jobs covering all appliances and services. i.e :

boiler service = 1/2 day
gas fire install = 1 day
boiler repair = 1 day
central heating install = 5 days ..... and so on..

In total it has taken me around 12 months working 5 days a week on-site to complete this portfolio and for everything to be signed off and finished.

It took another 3 months working while waiting until I felt comfortable to book my ACS exams.

I am now crrently sitting my ACS: CCN1, CENWAT, CPA1, HTR1 & CKR1

I have now passed my CCN1 theory today...and the CCN1 practical and modules commences next week (which I'm quite confidence I'll pass)

Here's the question....after 15 months work experience, BPEC Gas Foundation and ACS qualification. Do you think I'd be classed as a reputable Gas Engineer....or simply a "fast tracker" ??...or even maybe something in between?

Any feedback will be appreciated.

Dave

no.........!!!!!!!

 

[carpstu]

mate if your doing all the courses tests and passing them an your trainers are telling you your ready and you feel ready i dont see why you carnt get on allways have someone on the other end of the phone get them to come and check pay them if you have too but pls dont listen to people on here trying to put you off as only you know your story and what you can and carnt do. theirs too many people out their who think their better cos have haveing done plumbing all their lifes but i know for a fact it is harder to get the experance nowadays and its a lot harder to get the quals too

cos it's your post you probably feel there all for you? don't be too disappointed to find out some are generic and aimed at answering others posts!! The very fact your asking is a good indication of how conscientious you are, you've also been doing this whilst working in the trade being taught and guided by experienced pros!! Most so called 'fast-trackers' don't get this valuable experience! so your doing fine in my book.

 

[nicro3]

paydays on thursday that used to be the plumbing mantra whats changed?

 

[tamz]

Payday is now on a Friday to keep you out the pub on a Thursday night!

 

[fuzzy]

or the end of every month!

 

[fuzzy]

Dave'o I'm another fast tracker getting a bit sick of the bad press on this site, of course it's not the best way but at 30 years old what option do I have. It seems the only way to be respected is to be treated like crap for years when your 16 earning next to nothing when all you care about is getting drunk and laid at the weekend! It seems being a mature reliable professional who wants to learn isn't of the right ilk.

I have recently finished my C&G level 2 & 3 with Gas which took 5 months, 5 days a week 8am till 4pm, recently completed my NVQ level 2 and putting my gas portfolio together as we speak which I certainly don't want to rush it as I want to pass knowing I won't be putting lives in danger.

Since finishing I have been working with different plumbers as well as for myself. Whilst working for myself I have seen lots of bad installations. For example I had a central heating system the other day that needed to be piped up with bypass to stop kettling, clearly stated this in manual but who ever installed it couldn't read, probably a fast tracker although not sure they existed when it was installed so who knows who done it!

I'm learning on every job and would not dream of calling myself a fully fledged plumber, all I want to do like yourself is succeed in my new chosen career without everyone putting me down along the way.

Sounds like you are doing really well and I wish you all the best for the future, keep up the good work

you have a C&G ? whats a C&G, do you mean tech cert? who is the awrding body for the nvw/. i bet thats C&G aswell

 

[sdsparks]

City & Guilds

 

[fuzzy]

city and guilds is an awarding body, not the name of a qualification. Its like saying i have a DVLA, but what in what type what level??????

i think you probably mean you have a tech cert as the nvq is also c&g. would you say i have my C&G and i am now going for my C&G?

 

[fuzzy]

the nvq was the replacement for the old C&G craft cert and advanced craft cert not the tech cert as many people believe

 

[sdsparks]

Thanks Fuzzy and please don't take offense to my previous post, experience is the way but not always possible, all I want to do is get my qualifications and experience and get involved in renewables in the future, have already been on a 4 week course in Germany which was great.

Any advice greatly appreciated, well in less your going to tell me I'm an idiot and go back to pushing pens!

 

[fuzzy]

not at all mate, just like to advise from all the previous experience of mine, check out my latest topic on plumbing courses for a full explanation

germany, what was the course, sounds interesting

 

[sdsparks]

A UK charity called Embrace Cooperation has EU funding to set up a renewable college in the UK, the teaching method they chose is called The Solartuer big across Germany, Austria and other parts of Europe. We looked at Solar PV, Solar Thermal was meant to be going back this week for the last two weeks on heat pumps but my wife is expecting our first child so will have to pick up the last two weeks another time

As you may know at present you can become a solar installer after a 3 day BPEC course which is a joke so they wanted a better teaching methos. All my training is finished now, well apart from the life long learning on the tools so looking for a company to take me on as someone in between an apprentice and a plumber, a tricky one!