Plumbing Skills Today!!

[Jim1]

Hi All

I have only recently joined the forum, and have had a look around the various threads. I have been a Plumber Since 1985 and passed bothe the craft Skills and Avanced crafts 3 years later in the days when pen and paper were king and you had to prove your knowledge by writing it down etc. I have noticed that a lot of the threads are having a good old dig at "Fast Track Training", i have left a couple of replys as to what i think, but what other choice do adult learners have if they don't want to go to college.

I am a teacher of Plumbing and get a large variety of people through the door and very quickly squash their aspirations of being millionairres over night. With the new qualifications coming out (That should have been ready last year) I think its up to us that have the experience and training to keep badgering the powers that be at C&G to police these training centres more rigidly and shut them down if standards are not being met and maintained. Don't bother writing to inform them of a visit, just turn up on the doorstep, if there's nothing to hide, whats the problem?

I have also wrote to C&G on a number of occassions with suggestions for training course content, but it would carry more weight if practicing plumbers were to voice there opinions and put forward new suggestions. Its very easy to condemn, so lets gets our collective skills together and come up with a better solution

 

[fuzzy]

Hi jim,

im not sure your suggestion to C&G will carry much weight as they dont decide the content, as you are probably aware summitskills do that. C&G can only interpret it and design assessments to meet their outcomes

I also feel C&G have no ability to affect training at any centre, they visit to ensure compliance with assessments, as long as centres run the assessments as they should then they meet the requirements. Teaching is judged by OFSTED, as private centres are not government funded OFSTED do not visit, therefore the teaching, value for money, relevance and management etc are never tested or judged unlike a college

As many private centres have very good facilities they meet the needs of the C&G assessments very well and therefore often pass with flying colours

The course (qual and assessments etc) a candidate does on fast track or apprenticeship are identical, nothing to say the teaching is though. And with these fast tracks happening so fast they barely have time to revisit or reinforce knowledge its tought to the assessment, pass and out you go, its often rarely backed up with on site knowledge and hence the end product is usually far less than an apprenticeship.

So how do you fix the issues? C&G cannot do it (if centres meet assessments no probs), we cannot do it(plumbers can only train pprentices and cannot afford to pay adult apprentices what they want), the government cannot do it(they have to offer courses to everyone but can only afford to fund so much) so who is left? summitskills have designed the new diploma which requires work experience to pass, this is an attempt to ensure every new trainee meets at least some experience targets before getting the qual (unlike 6129). However with adult trainees desperate to be plumbers and willing to pay £1,000s, they are now signing up for 'working towards' a qual!!!!!!!! they pay, do the units and dont even get a qual, so the attempt seems to have failed. The only people who can stop it imo is people themselves by not paying out for half a qual.

People complain they are not told the facts, they are they just listen to what they want to hear. you have seen on other threads people gettinh angry when told the facts, the same people who think theres a conspiracy, the same people who didnt listen when they paid out 1000s, the same people who blame plumbers for their position. IMO this is a disgrace

 

[Jim1]

I hear what your saying fuzzy, but surely when C&G EV's visit centres, they should look at the whole set up rather than just the paperwork, i know this will create more work but some centres and colleges do need to be policed more stringently to ensure standards are being met

 

[fuzzy]

when a new scheme comes along or a new EV starts they must inspect the whole centre to ensure they can meet the demands of the qualification yes. maybe this could be tighter but im not sure this is the issue

My feelings are that these centres meet good standards of assessment, problem is a candidate only has to meet the standard once. You need to bend a pipe, you get it wrong 8 times in a row, attempt 9 ive done it right! They never have to do it again (just an example btw) So as a centre and a candidate they have met that target. In rel life to get good at something you need to be taught the underpinning knowledge and meet the targets continually.

Now imagine a traditional apprenticeship 4/5ths of the training is on site, 1 day is in college. because they go to college for 4 years theres ample time to reinforce issues, pipe bending can be done continually. I suppose im saying more emphasis is put on teaching and training at a college on an apprenticeship as well as assessments were a fast track is and can only be meeting the assessment. If OFSTED could get involved this would be different but they are not on full cost courses and the centres have met all the rules they have too so not much C&G can do. Plus they get income from them!

Im not sure of a solution to the problem, upply and demand. theres a supply of people wanting fats track, will pay, theres centres willing to put them through assesmsents and collect the dosh, what can we do? I dont agree with licencing, isnt that what quals were for? proof of competence, brining in a licence to practice is admitting the quals dont work, get the quals right