kinked, crimped and coiled 8mm pipework

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kinked, crimped and coiled 8mm pipework

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1animal1

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Hi,

I'm after a little advice.

I am working my way through a renovation of my central heating system prior to new carpets being fitted in the next few months and an unvented cylinder conversion from my current vented being fitted in the next year or so - this will be moved from the 1st floor airing cupboard to the ground floor garage. I could ideally do with getting the new system in before new carpets but I have a wedding to pay for in July which is scuppering my plans :) so right now the priority is to do as much as possible to convert fully to 15mm and replace T&G floorboards where possible that have been hacked by previous fitters (also to lower pipes to prevent banging on the boards when stood on) . This should mean minimal carpet removal when the new system eventually gets fitted.

As I start prep work, I've been lifting a few floor boards to get an understanding of the layout and what I'm faced with. My current set up includes 13 rads (approx 35-40k BTU, yet to calculate accurately), of which 7 upstairs which are the ones getting sorted first - 4 of which have 8mm pipework which I'm not comfortable with given it has been installed for at least 2 decades and has taken a lot to get it running clean again, obviously nothing added to prevent corrosion (average run is 8 meters to each rad from the landing). My plan is to run 15mm push fit from the 22mm feed/return running along the landing, fitting copper risers to new TRV's. My plumber also wanted me to run some pipe to the en suite mains shower for a direct hot water feed from where the unvented will be situated.

The system seems to have a main feed from the kitchen boiler (downstairs), going upstairs to the middle of the house where the cylinder lives, this then splices above the pump (next to the cylinder) into the electric valve which feeds the rads and hot water coil alternately. From what i can see so far i have 2x 22mm pipes for the rads, one which is the colder of the two on my working system, I assume is the return, this runs along the landing returning to the boiler with a T in the middle feeding downstairs, along the way it has the returns from the various rads - the other 22mm pipe (feed) appears to run halfway along the landing and downstairs again feeding into the rads along the way.

My question at this point is a strange one - when lifting one of the boards near the cylinder i noticed several wide coils of 8mm copper pipework from both of these feeds to 2 of my upstairs rads - not only are they coiled at least twice under the floor, they also appear to have been almost squashed fully by pliers in several places, presumably to reduce flow - why would this have been done? i presume to reduce flow perhaps, but isn't that what the lockshield's are for?

I don't really want to remove this and replace with the 15mm until i know why it's been done.Can anyone help?

Thanks

Tim
 
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Unless it's mid run on the 8mm then there isn't one, I'll just fit two lockshields on a rad . I'm sure the pre prepped unvented will have one, won't it?

One other question... Fitting a new 22mm pipe, hole in the beam or notches in the top? Which is most viable and professional?
 
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1animal1 said:
Unless it's mid run on the 8mm then there isn't one, I'll just fit two lockshields on a rad . I'm sure the pre prepped unvented will have one, won't it?

One other question... Fitting a new 22mm pipe, hole in the beam or notches in the top? Which is most viable and professional?
Click to expand...

if you hole will need to be drill from the center of the joist (unless your plastic or take a brick out you wont do it in copper)

and re the unvented you will need a g3 plumber to install that
 
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No probs, I'm thinking for the hot water pipe that my plumber asked me to install from the new site to the airing cupboard. I'm going to run the 22mm a bit further than he suggested and route some to the bath too, that way less wasted hot water than going through the old pipes - I'll be using barrier so holes may be best.

He is accredited to fit the unvented :)
 
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1animal1 said:
Is it worth running 22mm to the bath hot tap from an unvented? Or is this overkill?
Click to expand...

will give you better flow and i would if you could
 
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It's going to get a 22mm riser, then 6 -7 metres to the airing cupboard in 15mm. It passes the bathroom along the way so seemed a good idea. Just wasn't sure on flow rates.... Cheers Shaun
 
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rpm said:
Aren`t bath taps 22mm rather than 15mm?
Click to expand...

they are but half the time people just use a 15mm - 3/4 flex / tap connector
 
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rpm said:
Talking pipe size not BSP tap size, but sure you knew that.
Click to expand...

:D hoping you would spend a bit of time thinking wtf, cant pull the wool over your eyes ;)
 
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Out of pure curiosity. What would it cost me in the region of for an upstairs repipe and the extra 7-8 metres of water section to be fitted in copper by a plumber. I know there must be many variables, just wondering for a medium sized 4 bed.
 
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Can you chaps help please :)

I'm just working out where my 3 22mm pipes will enter the garage where the boiler and cylinder will be sited. I've looked into the calculations for notching and or drilling joints and trying to work out the best path. The rear of the garage is a simple breeze block so gather the boiler would have to be on the outside wall...

My question is, as the joist above the rear garage wall runs proud. It means that if I drop my pipes by notches, then they will enter the garage through the ceiling about 3-4 inch from the wall. Easily sorted with a few 90's, however I'm just wondering if that will hinder the flow much with it being so close to a few 90's so early on
 
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1animal1 said:
Can you chaps help please :)

I'm just working out where my 3 22mm pipes will enter the garage where the boiler and cylinder will be sited. I've looked into the calculations for notching and or drilling joints and trying to work out the best path. The rear of the garage is a simple breeze block so gather the boiler would have to be on the outside wall...

My question is, as the joist above the rear garage wall runs proud. It means that if I drop my pipes by notches, then they will enter the garage through the ceiling about 3-4 inch from the wall. Easily sorted with a few 90's, however I'm just wondering if that will hinder the flow much with it being so close to a few 90's so early on
Click to expand...

Use two 45 and make an offset
 
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Thanks Shaun, I can't see a way around it without hacking the joists and adding even more bends to get them beneath the joists, which I'd obviously like to avoid.

One thing on the joist calcs, it mentions minimum and maximum distance from the ends as to where you can notch. Is there any issues doing one big notch at Max depth (23mm) for two of the 22mm's? With a bit of underlay between them
 
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Thanks phoenix, they are 8inch joists @ 2.6m across, apologies for the curious cross measurements.

Calculator I used gives me 2 or 3 mm extra over the depth of the 22mm to avoid the boards above. One cut was done near the end of the joist 50mm from the minimum safe by the original fitter for a piece of 15mm, so I thought rather than cut a third notch, just expand that one given its already there
 
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1animal1 said:
Thanks Shaun, I can't see a way around it without hacking the joists and adding even more bends to get them beneath the joists, which I'd obviously like to avoid.

One thing on the joist calcs, it mentions minimum and maximum distance from the ends as to where you can notch. Is there any issues doing one big notch at Max depth (23mm) for two of the 22mm's? With a bit of underlay between them
Click to expand...

Do it like this, ignore the sizes

figuur1.27-page11.jpg
 
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1animal1 said:
I'll drop the pipes down in that case and let my plumber cut and put some copper 45's in to make it look neat and tidy.
Click to expand...

Drop the pipes 3 - 4 inches below the ceiling
 
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Evening all.

I have yet another question about bath taps. I know there's no reason to use 22mm to the bath if using a combi, I also know to use 22mm if you have a vented cylinder. Is there likely to be a noticeable downside to running the final 2m in 15mm from my 22mm feed pipe assuming I use 1/2 taps? Thinking pressure, but will it be that noticeable on a pressurised unvented system
 
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no you will be fine get as far as you can with 22mm (easily) then 15mm from there
 
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Yea worth nothing unless you have a ton and yes or to a scrap man
 
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Stage 1 complete! I have removed the 2nd rad in the large room, soaking myself in the process as i only needed to cap two pipes - luckily it was only mains pressure (I would have had to drain otherwise).

I have also ran the extension to the rad feed ready for this to be soldered by my plumber, and placed the hot water feed parallel with 22mm copper then onto a 22x15x15 tee (to main bathroom and en suite shower)... my only query at this point was that i had to create an S bend in the 15mm going to this tee, it's tight but hasn't kinked, though it wouldn't enter the tee easily, so i removed it from the 22mm pipe to fit the 15's, then reconnected to the 22mm which seems to have done the trick - I imagine this will hold with superseal inserts pushed fully home even though there's a pressure from the pipe S bend on the fitting? (The S is spread between 1 beam cavity).

Thankfully the main bath feed went down one beam cavity - the shower had to cross multiple beams for which there was existing notches from an old pipe route, these are either just below (2mm) or rest on the floorboards, but are definitely not squashed by them - although i expect plastic pipe on boards won't have the same issue you get with the banging copper variants.
 
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Post a pic up of your s bend thing if you can
 
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