Fast track courses worth it?

[Joe Shmoe]

Hi gents,

Having lost my job in an industry I no longer want to work in, I am doing my research as to whether plumbing could be an option for the future.

I used to work as a photographic set builder and have done quite a bit of renovation work on my house, so have quite a few tools and am handy in building etc. I have fit a couple of sinks and kitchen taps, and replaced two bathroom suites for family which I enjoyed, so I am confident of doing the basics. All the work turned out good, but I have no idea of what I am doing, other than applying logic to what I am trying to achive and watching YouTube videos for training.

If I am to make a proper career, I want to get training so I can do the whole hog, that includes central heating systems and boiler fitting etc.

My question is, if I was to do the OLCI 'traing to be a plumber course' followed by the Advanced course which teaches boilers and central heating, would I be in a position to set-up as a self-employed plumber, or would I still need additional training, or real-life experience etc?

I want to do things the best way possible, but don't want to invest money and not come out fully trained for what I want to do at the end of it.

I do have the advantage of being used to building, and can plaster, tile and build to reasonable standard, so I am not a total novice, but I have no plumbing experience other than a few baths and sinks and some basic copper pipe work.

Any pointers from seasoned plumbers or those who have taken the OLCI courses would be much appreciated.


Regards
Joe.

 

[REDSAW]

Sorry, don't understand that!

'one life-live it'

 

[kirkgas]

Is there a fast track course I can do to become one?

if you are time served the do your A1 and V1 (5-6 days total collating work/reports/ being checked doing a dual assessment) then you are a trainer, as plenty will say before i do, it also helps if you are no good at the job and need to get away from real work haha

 

[Mike Jackson]

From my experience of the tutors at the local college you will also take a serious cut in money if you work for a normal college. I think you need to go to a specialist training centre if you want to earn big bucks like Kirk.

 

[WHPES]

Health, Safety and Environmental training is always in demand

 

[petercj]

The difference between the two types of learner, which you seem to be ignoring Peter, is the 4 day's a week for 4 years that the apprentice does learning from the plumbers on site doing the actual job of plumbing, in the actual work place under there supervision. They have the opportunity through this time to see how what they are learning in a classroom is applied in the work place. Which is precisely the reason why doesn't work the other way. "Training in classroom conditions is about acquiring theory and know-how, and more often than not, there will be little opportunity to put such learning into practice within the college or training centre - which applies to most industrial training done in colleges". Your words I believe ?

Can you guess what sort of training I have been involved in ? As far as giving the benefit of my knowledge & experience away, well I do that on a daily basis to those who will be able to make the best use of it & the reason I do it is simple, I came through a system where people gave me there knowledge & experience without me having to pay them, I am only returning what I owe.

The big question with a fragmented industry consisting of small firms & little money due to undercutting, who is able to take on an apprentice for this system to continue ??

I think you must have misunderstood my post, because there's no way I would ever suggest that full time college training or anything similar could match up to 4 days on the job and one day in college - being the classic model for apprenticeship training in the past.

But the reality is that such training opportunities are not available to many people, even if they meet the eligibility criteria.

If people are unemployed, or they anticipate redundancy and they are desperate to get a foot on the first rung of the ladder, then fast-track training might be their only option.

When I see the term 'fast track' in an educational context I think of a condensed learning situation that means covering a lot of ground in a relatively short space of time, which is not the same thing as meaning it's a fast track into a job. However, for people who don't have established trade skills a fast-track course might give them the edge over someone who has done no training at all.

These days most employers want experienced people and they don't have much time for training people up, and at the moment it's an employers market anyway, so getting a foot on the ladder for newbies is likely to be tough. What I was saying is that if people bring maturity and other transferable skills to their endeavours then that is likely to increase their chances of success.

Fast-track learning usually means negotiating a steep learning curve, and so may not be suitable for some people, i.e. not everyone learns in the same way, and so FT is likely to suite some people more than others. If people bring established study skills and a good memory to their work, that's bound to help. Aptitude, and a positive but realistic attitude will also stand people in very good stead.

I helped to set up the Employment Training scheme in 1989/90, and did a year as a Training Assessor. The scheme was cribbed from the German model of training and was excellent. Had that scheme been properly supported and funded by the Thatcher Government Britain would be in a much better place today.

Unfortunately, the ideological leanings of a woman brought up in a corner shop led to abandonment of the Man Power Services commission and the associated Government SKILLS training centres, one of the functions of which was to act as a mechanism for coordinating the supply and demand of construction skills.

MPS/SKILLS training centres provided what could be considered fast-track training, but they did it with an emphasis on simulated work situations, rather than being class-room base. When assessing referrals for training as brickie they would look for basic dexterity, and being low on basic literacy skills wouldn't be a bar.

Britain has had 30 years of Government by people who preach responsibility rather than demonstrating any themselves - they've just abdicated all responsibility to the market place and private enterprise, and the current FU is the result.

But to focus on the current topic, I totally agree that 4 days in the workplace and one in college is an ideal model, but the reality is that it's not available to large numbers of people looking for such an opportunity, and it's unlikely to be practicable for people who have a family to support and so need a substantial wage.

With the changes in university funding the scene has been set for people with advanced academic skills to become interested in practical training, and I would think the gas industry will benefit from an influx of such folk.

If I had any say in the matter I would create an agency to do what the old MPSC commission did, and set up Government training centres around the country to provide the best training possible - but my thinking is what people now brand as 'old labour' (even though it was Ted Heath's Government that set up the MPSC)

 

[Subby]

tl;dr

 

[Glenwils]

Fast track courses are a stepping stone into the industry for people not lucky enough to be able to get an apprenticeship at an early age.

Those that think they are a fully qualified plumber and can go out on their own soon as they finish their fast track course are destined to fail. Those that see it as a good way to learn the basics and see it as a starting point to a career in the plumbing industry will more than likely succeed.

 

[Guest123]

Fast track courses are a stepping stone into the industry for people not lucky enough to be able to get an apprenticeship at an early age.

Not in all cases. Many believe the hype of easy earnings and a easy life and are bored with their current career. They see training as a plumber as being the answer.

After the banking crisis, many bank employees who had been doing the same specialised banking work for years, suddenly found themselves without a job and having read the false marketing promises from the training schools, then decided to become plumbers, sparks etc. Many had never even picked up a hammer before.

The course providers should be made to tell the truth and advertise realistic figures of what can be earned in todays times of Tory austerity.

 

[Masood]

Not in all cases. Many believe the hype of easy earnings and a easy life and are bored with their current career. They see training as a plumber as being the answer.

After the banking crisis, many bank employees who had been doing the same specialised banking work for years, suddenly found themselves without a job and having read the false marketing promises from the training schools, then decided to become plumbers, sparks etc. Many had never even picked up a hammer before.

The course providers should be made to tell the truth and advertise realistic figures of what can be earned in todays times of Tory austerity.

You know, it's a funny reversal of what happened in the late 90's - on the back of the dotcom boom and the scare of the millennium bug, thousands of people who had no IT background swallowed the hype from IT training providers who promised to turn people into network engineers, wed designers, programmers, and Windows NT administrators within 4 or six weeks!

The number of CVs I had from these poor hopefuls, lured in by the promise of £75K starting salaries, was upsetting beyond belief. By my reckoning fewer than 10% actually made a career in IT, and those that did, did it by determination and an unwavering commitment to make it, rather than those who believed that a cram course would give them real-world skills...

 

[Guest123]

Agree Masood. Only with hard work and commitment has any business got any chance of making it. Only one on five UK businesses make it past the first 2 years of trading and that's without any government austerity policies in place.

 

[kirkgas]

From my experience of the tutors at the local college you will also take a serious cut in money if you work for a normal college. I think you need to go to a specialist training centre if you want to earn big bucks like Kirk.

a full time college lecturer on the top band is on about £36k ( 32hrs a week, only 25 teaching, for 40 weeks a year) if you are on a temp contract you will get about £30ph plus £7ph put aside for holiday pay so you dont starve

 

[chris watkins]

a full time college lecturer on the top band is on about £36k ( 32hrs a week, only 25 teaching, for 40 weeks a year) if you are on a temp contract you will get about £30ph plus £7ph put aside for holiday pay so you dont starve

What he hasn't told you is like most teachers you spend a lot more time doing the prep work, exams & correcting all the mistake on the stuff that the Guilds send through ( at the moment I am thier very own correction service, they send out the crap, I check it all for them & send it back telling them what is wrong all un-paid).
Oh & before you all go only 25 hours of proper work, you do want to try it first.
& 12 weeks off, I wish !!!!

 

[johnnyplumb]

if you are time served the do your A1 and V1 (5-6 days total collating work/reports/ being checked doing a dual assessment) then you are a trainer, as plenty will say before i do, it also helps if you are no good at the job and need to get away from real work haha

i've heard it said, that you retire into teaching :innocent: haha

 

[lewisplumber]

Welcome to the forum! I say go for it. I done it. I then looked into a franchise which would guarantee me work( 10 jobs a week) but opted out of that for cost reasons and I am now self employed. It is working for me. BUT I had a job to go to on completion of my course which allowed me to mess up from time to time under some one else's name and I had other people to talk to on how to get round situations. The course is a brief over view of plumbing and when you step into the pond you can't walk on water straight away, it will be falling on your head through a clients ceiling. It takes time out on the tools to know if you love the job. I would offer your services for free to a plumber and find out if you enjoy it before spending out on a course. Like the others have said you can be out of your depth pretty quick. You can't just turn things off then on again to reset it.(well some you can) ha ha. GOOD LUCK.

 

[WHPES]

There have been four "fast track" plumbers in my area in the last few years, none of which had any relevant experience prior to setting up. The longest lasted about 18 months at it before giving up. I have had plenty of business going round putting right their work afterwards.

 

[hunterseye]

This will be probably sound a dumb question, but what is your guys thoughts on the qualification its self (the 6129) i did it at college, would you guys say its a cowboy route or is it just training centres that get the bad stick. Surely the 6129 is the same where ever its tought, and in that i would suggest its the qual that you guys have the problem with. I dont disagree there is no better experiance than the traditional route, but to brand everyone who does the 6129 as almost less worthy in my book is wrong. I take a similar approach to masood. Focus, never be affraid to ask, etc etc

I suppose the point i'm making is, thats its down to the individual. Just because the said person is "time served" or took traditional route doesn't in some cases make them competant.

 

[chris watkins]

There have been four "fast track" plumbers in my area in the last few years, none of which had any relevant experience prior to setting up. The longest lasted about 18 months at it before giving up. I have had plenty of business going round putting right their work afterwards.

Yes but how much money has been lost by you not doing the job as a whole & to the reputation of plumbing buy letting these people have a go to see if they could make it. Why or how did they get the jobs in the first place - answer they were cheaper - custards do not care to much how long they have been trading, what training they have etc etc, just are they cheap (of course there transferable people / business skills may well sell the job to the customer over you, LOL,)

 

[chris watkins]

This will be probably sound a dumb question, but what is your guys thoughts on the qualification its self (the 6129) i did it at college, would you guys say its a cowboy route or is it just training centres that get the bad stick. Surely the 6129 is the same where ever its tought, and in that i would suggest its the qual that you guys have the problem with. I dont disagree there is no better experiance than the traditional route, but to brand everyone who does the 6129 as almost less worthy in my book is wrong. I take a similar approach to masood. Focus, never be affraid to ask, etc etc

I suppose the point i'm making is, thats its down to the individual. Just because the said person is "time served" or took traditional route doesn't in some cases make them competant.

No, your right it doesn't but what do you recon the chances are that they will be ??? If you have not come via that route then I would suggest it's very difficult to talk with any authority.
As Fuzzy will no doubt tell you, nothing wrong with the 6129 on its own, every apprentice over the last 7+ years has had to do it, the problem is that unless you can do the 6089 NVQ you are not classed as qualified buy the industry (you could look at the 6089 as a trade skills test i.e. this is the minimum skills that anyone should have before we let them loose on the public), for the reasons already covered.
You can't really think that teaching is the same all over. Does it not make any difference to the learner how good or knowledgeable they are? The times over the years that I have had learners from other places in, to be told "we never covered that" "No they just told us the answers to those exams", "system planning, no we never did any of that they just told us what to put when we went in for the day"

 

[hunterseye]

No, your right it doesn't but what do you recon the chances are that they will be ??? If you have not come via that route then I would suggest it's very difficult to talk with any authority.
As Fuzzy will no doubt tell you, nothing wrong with the 6129 on its own, every apprentice over the last 7+ years has had to do it, the problem is that unless you can do the 6089 NVQ you are not classed as qualified buy the industry (you could look at the 6089 as a trade skills test i.e. this is the minimum skills that anyone should have before we let them loose on the public), for the reasons already covered.
You can't really think that teaching is the same all over. Does it not make any difference to the learner how good or knowledgeable they are? The times over the years that I have had learners from other places in, to be told "we never covered that" "No they just told us the answers to those exams", "system planning, no we never did any of that they just told us what to put when we went in for the day"

Your spot on chris yes, i don't disagree with anything you've said and don't wish to appear to be speaking with authority on the subject. I'm glad i did mine at college as we wasn't told what to put for this that and the other and the lecturer made us think. He also stuck to the rules like if your bends or marking wasn't within the 2mm tolerance you'd have to do it again lol. So i felt i got value for money from the course. That said, when i started going to peoples houses etc, it highlights just how little is tought on the course.

Thats when my own focus comes into it, just because the course is done i don't put the books down. I'm all the time trying to learn more because i want to suceed and build a reputation and business to be proud of.

Like i said though, your bang on with your comments and i wish i'd had the oppertunity (or forsight) when younger to go that way. But i didn't so i'm doing it the hard way.

 

[chris watkins]

Understood Hunterseye & I always wish the individuals well if they follow your ethos & will always try to help with info but does that mean that I am wrong to suggest that there needs to be some effective means of controlling who enters (the numbers) the industry, even if the means saying NO I am very sorry you can not be a plumber!, you are too old, can't find a plumbing job, not bright enough or by whatever other criteria we what to lay down.

 

[hunterseye]

No chris your not wrong mate, and quite frankly i'm flabbergasted at just how unregulated this industry is. And fully empathise with you boys who have followed correct protocol to get where you have.

 

[petercj]

does that mean that I am wrong to suggest that there needs to be some effective means of controlling who enters (the numbers) the industry, even if the means saying NO I am very sorry you can not be a plumber!, you are too old, can't find a plumbing job, not bright enough or by whatever other criteria we what to lay down.

Not heard of the Equality Act then Chris? Not to mention a few hundred chapters of EU legislation.

Personally, I've always been suspicious of grown men who like playing with water!

 

[chris watkins]

Wonder how the medical services, for instants, get on then when inappropriately qualified, trained or experienced people applier for post in an NHS hospitals, do they say come on in, have a go, you will soon pick it up, couple of years & you will be up to standard. Am I asking for anything different Peter ?

Nothing to do with Equality Act or EU legislation as you well know !!!!
Does not the person who is not suited or does not have the ability to succeed in a profession have rights too ? are you correct to encouraging them to believe that they can ??
It seems to be a trait of our modern society.

 

[petercj]

Wonder how the medical services, for instants, get on then when inappropriately qualified, trained or experienced people applier for post in an NHS hospitals, do they say come on in, have a go, you will soon pick it up, couple of years & you will be up to standard. Am I asking for anything different Peter ?

Nothing to do with Equality Act or EU legislation as you well know !!!!
Does not the person who is not suited or does not have the ability to succeed in a profession have rights too ? are you correct to encouraging them to believe that they can ??
It seems to be a trait of our modern society.

You could use the police system, i.e. tell them they'll need to be a Free Mason to get anywhere! lol

Should thin down new entrants a bit ;-)

 

[chris watkins]

No, I don't need the police, I am more than capable myself but you are clearly not !!
As you mentioned the police, do you know how many are in training now? have a look at the specials ? hundreds of thousands chasing just a few places, how are they selected & then trained for the job. It is call assessment ! good enough-your in, not up to scratch - sorry!
(un-less your dads the inspector LOL)

 

[petercj]

No, I don't need the police, I am more than capable myself but you are clearly not !!
As you mentioned the police, do you know how many are in training now? have a look at the specials ? hundreds of thousands chasing just a few places, how are they selected & then trained for the job. It is call assessment ! good enough-your in, not up to scratch - sorry!
(un-less your dads the inspector LOL)

Police forces stopped recruiting some time back due to the downsizing policies of Government.

Gate-keeping an industry on numbers alone goes against the grain in so many ways.

Standards could be raised: C&G, NVQ, Gas Safe, etc, but can't see many people voting for that. Or requiring a certificate to fit a tap that needs renewing every three years at considerable expense.

Ironically, making training more academic would probably favour the kind of person who can hack a fast-track course, and work against the less academic person who is more suited to a longer period of training on the job over 4 years.

With the increases in university fees there probably will be more academically qualified people chasing plumbing/gas training, so the bar will be raised in that respect anyway. Ed Miliband has been talking about the introduction of a baccalaureate for practical skills at the recent Labour conference.

If the Government want to make any kind of intervention to help matters, I would think a national house building program would be the best way to do it. I can't see Cameron's tinkering with the planning regulations making a lot of difference, that's if it ever gets past the Conservative Councillors who are up in arms against it at the moment.

 

[nicro3]

Great debate, We live in a market risk and return economy

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Some poetry

6129 is mine and it didn't take much time
It was brilliantly taught
But now I am caught

They say I need unvented, acs and wras
More cash!

Out on the job, its not making sense
It was easier in college on the bench

Estate Agent and Banker now Plumber
Occupations of shysters?
Bummer!

 

[petercj]

Some poetry

6129 is mine and it didn't take much time
It was brilliantly taught
But now I am caught

They say I need unvented, acs and wras
More cash!

Out on the job, its not making sense
It was easier in college on the bench

Estate Agent and Banker now Plumber
Occupations of shysters?
Bummer!

It works if read with a Pam Ayres accent!

Just had an idea, i.e. "Mentors-4-U" ... being an agency that links newbies up with experience plumbers - the newbie pays a weekly fee to the experienced plumber who is available by phone to give advice when needed!

What do you think?

Just need £100k from Debra Meaden now so that I can set the office up on a beach in Barbados - I'm happy for her to have 50% of the business! Just in case you read these threads Debra :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Guest123]

On the subject of Ms Meaden, does the BBC pay a salary to each of the multi millionaire dragons on Dragons Den?