Domestic Central Heating volume/temperature/time/energy standard. Is there one?

[Datanaut]

If it takes 10 hours for the temperature to rise by one degree in a windowless room measuring 3x3x3 mts with a 1 kw radiator on a 25 kw boiler one might say that the domestic heating system was failing.

My question:

Is there a standard laid down somewhere for domestic heating and if so what might it be called and where might I look for it?

My guess is that there is a standard and it's something like the temperature of a volume of air needs to rise by an amount over time for a given amount of gas burned.

My guess is that the equipment required is a gas meter a thermometer a stopwatch a tape measure and a lot of calculations and several mugs of strong tea..

My guess is that 'the radiators get hot and it seem OK to me" is not a test but an opinion.

Can I smell burning pants?

 

[Reg Man]

Bs5449?

 

[chris watkins]

BS EN 12828:2003 Design for water base heating systems in buildings.
more likely BS EN 12831:2003 Method for calculation of the design heating load.

 

[Datanaut]

Thanks for the clues I'll have a look.

 

[Reg Man]

Thanks for the clues I'll have a look.

BS5449 only £184 from their shop, what a rip off.

 

[chris watkins]

BS5449 only £184 from their shop, what a rip off.

I am fairly sure that 5449 is now superseded, it is from memory around 20+ years old now.

 

[Reg Man]

I am fairly sure that 5449 is now superseded, it is from memory around 20+ years old now.

Yes 1990 standard. Superseded, Still not a bad document, Same sort of principles, surpose we must move on though.

 

[Datanaut]

-- The system is very slow to heat the property --
A company senior heating engineer came around to test the installation.
He measured the rooms and noted the doors and window types.
Counted the number and type of radiators and identified the boiler.


The engineer told me the radiator / boiler combination is correct for the property. He then left telling me that he would return with the correct testing equipment to make measurements. I phone back 3 weeks later and the engineer has written and sent his report to the other party despite never returning to do any testing! Without taking measurements his 'report' can only be opinion.


I've have tried to get access to the 12828, 12831 or the 5449 standard to see if I can do some of the calculations but the prices are prohibitive. Even if I could get my hands on the standards It's likely I might not be able to work out how to do the testing.


I assume you:
Note the room temperate.
Note the outside temperature.
Note the gas meter reading.
Note the time.
( there may be others like boiler temperature of the flow and return pipes? )


After:
A period of time has passed
OR a unit of gas has been consumption
OR the inside temperature has risen has by a fixed amount
OR a fixed time has elapsed


You take all the measurements again and using a formula you get some results which can be compared against the numbers in one of the standards 12828, 12831 or the 5449.


Can anyone point me to that formula or am I kidding myself it's just not that easy?


What I'm up against is a very large company that is taking advantage of my ignorance of domestic central heating systems. Do they not realise that in the long run it's a tactic that's doomed!


Doomed I tell you, DOOMED.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

Datanaut.
First let me apologise because I am not going to answer your question exactly, there is an answer but I don't know it.
But we could start at some basics.
From what I have read I think you are a tenant and you think your property is too cold most of the time.
Just occassionally we come across poblems like this and find there is nothing wrong with the heating - the problem is with the resident!
The first thing to test - is very simple - is your home really too cold.

If your sitting room is 21 C when it is cold outside and your bedroom is 18C then everything is fine - your heating system is meeting standards.
Then you also need to know the outside temperature.
You living room has to be 21C when it is AA degrees outside. If it gets colder than AA then your living room will not get to 21 but that is OK.
What is AA.
AA is a normal winter low in your area - it is not those exceptional cold spells.
And what exactly is AA?
It is different across the country - I expect someone else can tell you before I find a link to it. Here in the S East I think it is about 3 degrees and as you go further north it gets lower.

Before you waste time and energy just make sure your home really is cold. The people we have seen who complain about their heating in the way you have are complaining it is cold and nothing works when they have their homes at 27C or more!

Of course, your heating system may really be not designed correctly.

 

[stevetheplumber]

also is the boiler on full i had a tennant complaining the house was cold and she had the boiler on 1 when i suggesated she turn it up she said if she did that it would burn to much gas

 

[AWheating]

outside design temp between 0 and -5 normally, 21 degrees in living spaces, 22 in bathing rooms and 18 in sleeping areas and wc.

each rooms heat loss should be calulated and depends on size, u valvues, air changes etc.....


examples of some suggested outside temps.

Belfast
-1.2
Birmingham
-3.4
Cardiff
-1.6
Edinburgh
-3.4
Glasgow
-3.9

 

[AWheating]

ask the installation company for the heat loss calculations. Is it a new house?

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

And.
Now I've thought about it - there isn't an answer to your original question because it doesn't take account of heat loss and it assumes the heating system will always raise the temperature.
You give example of 10 hours to rise by 1 degree - but how hot is it in there? If it is only 15C then yes you have a problem and if above 25 not.

 

[Datanaut]

Dear Tara and Steve,

Thanks for your answers and I'm aware of the issue with cold and that it may well be a tenants perception that is really the problem. I know about the temperate map that varies between areas. I run my place pretty cool in comparison to most at around the 18 C mark.

But when I go crazy and turn the temperature up to 21 for the belly dancing high teas I have every Wednesday we have a problem as the place never get's to 21 C like it used to. I believe that there is a restriction in the system. The 20 year old boiler worked fine until last summer. Then it started kettling and a new, more powerful A rated Viessmann boiler was installed. The 20 year old system should have been power flushed before the new boiler was commissioned. But it was not. And since the new improved boiler has been installed the house never makes it to 21 degrees and after 8 hours shuts down because it's lost all it's pressure. I've bleed the radiators and looked for leaks to explain the failing BAR pressure.

Got an engineer round to 'test' the system but as I said. He never actually did any test.

Is the system under strain because the flow round the system restricted by a blockage?
Is the BAR dropping because the pipework is losing water where I can't see it?

How does 'the radiators get hot' answer either of these questions?

 

[Datanaut]

You give example of 10 hours to rise by 1 degree

I just picked them crazy numbers out of my head. If I knew what sort of performance I was looking for I'd be in a better position to do my own test. I run the place pretty cool most of the time about the 16 C mark.