DFE Fires

[stani]

Let us know if she has the Mi's it could be a first.lol

 

[jaydebruyne]

Let us know if she has the Mi's it could be a first.lol

Just what I thought lol

 

[firemant]

Jay, you have to be careful. f anyone asks me to "look" at something )normally while I am doing another job), I always refuse. I am all in or nothing. You have suggested to the punter that the fire s okay but you will check. You say the flue "seems" clear? Did you do the flue flow test, and checked the route of the flue? (your post is not really clear on that)
If there is a witness to the "check", followed by an incident, you will be in the proverbial.

Having said that, the fire looks okay but in dire need of a service, and proper coal placement. there should be an isolation valve, but the absence of one is only (in old parlance) NCS. Is there a data badge? It is always better to post a pic of the controls with the ash pan cover removed. As for a bigger "basket" - what did he mean? A bigger basket is essentially a new fire, but he may have meant a bigger fret, which would help air flow, and many fire MIs show minimum free areas through the fret.

 

[firemant]

repeated post

 

[jaydebruyne]

Jay, you have to be careful. f anyone asks me to "look" at something )normally while I am doing another job), I always refuse. I am all in or nothing. You have suggested to the punter that the fire s okay but you will check. You say the flue "seems" clear? Did you do the flue flow test, and checked the route of the flue? (your post is not really clear on that)
If there is a witness to the "check", followed by an incident, you will be in the proverbial.

Having said that, the fire looks okay but in dire need of a service, and proper coal placement. there should be an isolation valve, but the absence of one is only (in old parlance) NCS. Is there a data badge? It is always better to post a pic of the controls with the ash pan cover removed. As for a bigger "basket" - what did he mean? A bigger basket is essentially a new fire, but he may have meant a bigger fret, which would help air flow, and many fire MIs show minimum free areas through the fret.

Didn't test the flue as she just wanted an opinion about the basket. I advised her I would need to test the flue (flue flow and spillage) to ensure the safe operation of the flue. Regarding the fret, I can't see any problem with it. Thing is, the other engineer didn't test the flue either. He just looked at it and immediately said it needs a bigger basket/fret. I'm not questioning his advice as I'm sure he's a lot more experienced than I am, but I wanted to know so I can learn.

I've asked her if she has MI's so I can service the fire, if she doesn't I'm not gonna touch it (unless there's a data badge and I can download them)

 

[Last Plumber]

My apologies.

On first glance at that shambles of a fire, I assumed you were looking at one in an ACS training centre. IF that's in someone's house and you've seen it and been asked to look at it, I would have gone to town and done a thorough inspection and testing session on it.

Hearth measurements
Ventilation
Smoke test
Visual up flue
In loft ( flue route etc)
Spillage
Gas pressures
Coal arrangement
The works.

I don't know why I thought it was in a training centre, the only thing that made me look twice was the fact that there are no 'finger inflicted black spillage simulating marks on the wall'

 

[jaydebruyne]

My apologies.

On first glance at that shambles of a fire, I assumed you were looking at one in an ACS training centre. IF that's in someone's house and you've seen it and been asked to look at it, I would have gone to town and done a thorough inspection and testing session on it.

Hearth measurements
Ventilation
Smoke test
Visual up flue
In loft ( flue route etc)
Spillage
Gas pressures
Coal arrangement
The works.

I don't know why I thought it was in a training centre, the only thing that made me look twice was the fact that there are no 'finger inflicted black spillage simulating marks on the wall'

Lol no not in a test centre! I'm going back for a different job next week so I'm going to sort the fire also.. in which I WILL go to town on it

my post was really to find out why someone on first impression without any tests or even looking up the flue would say it needs a bigger basket or fret.. I just wanted to know if I was missing something.

I already told her the hearth is too small since it has to come out 300mm - she said that's never been mentioned before, I said what if a coal fell out, it'll go straight in your combustible wooden flooring!!! So that alone is AR.. I'm sure I'll find other reasons to shut it off ...

 

[Last Plumber]

Yes.

Have a look at gas pipe beneath it too, if it runs in the catchment space it should be protected

( wrapped)

 

[jaydebruyne]

Yes.

Have a look at gas pipe beneath it too, if it runs in the catchment space it should be protected

( wrapped)

I think it does and no, not protected

 

[firemant]

Undersized hearth with no signs of distress is NOT AR.
The function of a hearth is to provide a physical barrier to standing too close to the fire, and to protect floor covering from radiated heat.
Is the hearth on the floor, or is it up a height? some fires have different requirements for these, and some can be fitted with NO hearth, if high enough. (although probably not that one)
Also. I cannot see the bottom section of the ash pan cover. It typically has two openings, left and right, and, as I said, some fires have a diagram showing the minimum free area. I was not specific enough - it shows WHERE the free area should be. This is because inset tray fires are typically sold without specific frets, and the customer can select from a range offered by the retailer, so the fire maker has no control over the design.

I suspect that you are going to go down the route of "finding" a reason to disconnect. Why not do the job properly - maintain and repair as necessary, and charge accordingly. We are not called "service engineers" for nothing.

It probably just needs a good clean, andcorrect placement of the coals - and you may impress the client

 

[jaydebruyne]

Undersized hearth with no signs of distress is NOT AR.
The function of a hearth is to provide a physical barrier to standing too close to the fire, and to protect floor covering from radiated heat.
Is the hearth on the floor, or is it up a height? some fires have different requirements for these, and some can be fitted with NO hearth, if high enough. (although probably not that one)
Also. I cannot see the bottom section of the ash pan cover. It typically has two openings, left and right, and, as I said, some fires have a diagram showing the minimum free area. I was not specific enough - it shows WHERE the free area should be. This is because inset tray fires are typically sold without specific frets, and the customer can select from a range offered by the retailer, so the fire maker has no control over the design.

I suspect that you are going to go down the route of "finding" a reason to disconnect. Why not do the job properly - maintain and repair as necessary, and charge accordingly. We are not called "service engineers" for nothing.

It probably just needs a good clean, andcorrect placement of the coals - and you may impress the client

To be honest I'd rather not shut it off, but the state that the fires in it doesn't look safe to me. I haven't got as far as dealing with the fire yet as I'm doing other stuf in the house at the mo. But the manual is no longer available so I can't service it either.

Unless you know where I can get one from? I've searched online but can't find anything. It's a Brilliant 16TCDL.

The ash pan cover has no openings at all.

The fire is about 3 inches above floor level and protrudes about 1 inch from the wall surface. It's my lack of experience and confidence with fires that made me think the hearth was too small. I've never seen a DFE fitted above floor level before. But at least I've learned something

Thing is, without the manual I can't confirm if the hearth has been done properly either.

 

[firemant]

As it is a brilliant, the hearth is probably okay, but idea;ly you need the MIs. Try phoning them:

https://www.brilliantfires.co.uk/replacement-parts


Technical: 01254 682384

 

[jaydebruyne]

As it is a brilliant, the hearth is probably okay, but idea;ly you need the MIs. Try phoning them:

https://www.brilliantfires.co.uk/replacement-parts


Technical: 01254 682384

Cheers firemant, much appreciated [emoji1303]

 

[jaydebruyne]

As it is a brilliant, the hearth is probably okay, but idea;ly you need the MIs. Try phoning them:

https://www.brilliantfires.co.uk/replacement-parts


Technical: 01254 682384

Manufacturer doesn't even have the manual any more! I've scoured google and the only reference to the manual is someone else looking for one lol

 

[firemant]

Manufacturer doesn't even have the manual any more! I've scoured google and the only reference to the manual is someone else looking for one lol

Pathetic. How can a manufacturer not keep at least one copy?

Then you have 2 choices - carry on using default rules, the only problem being the coal set up, ut many older inset tray fires just told you to lay the coals randomly, leaving plenty of spaces. If you go for that, make sure you warn them coals may soot up. The hearth is at worst the old NTCS. Otherwise, sell em anew fire!