Is it wrong to ask for a written estimate?

[SafeGasInstall]

Good luck to OP , he needs it !
My boiler works fine and if I need work done on my van I will ring him to take care of my van , I will then explain the fault over the phone and will ask him to sent me email with exact price to fix it

 

[carpman]

You guys need to face the facts that plumber/heating engineers have bad reputation due to the many cowboys out there, to change that you need to differentiate yourself from them and foster good customer relations.

From i can see this forum is trying to do that, but there are still a lot cowboys out there.

I will now respond to some point mad since last post, even though it seems some people have failed to read my post correctly.


1. Bring boiler to me, don't do remote estimates . I was happy to pay engineer to come out and diagnose the fault.

2. Self diagnoses is bad? How come this forum is full of people asking for information for self diagnoses?

3. Remote diagnoses can't be done, again this forum is full of people giving remote diagnoses without seeing boiler

4. Never give fixed quote, never asked for one, asked for a ball park figure

5. Unknown fault can't give a price, this is common issue with this boiler, this engineer told that the issue i is very common with boilers. If it is common and repaired on regular basis you should be able to give an estimate.

6. Written estimates take time, have to go to office type it up etc With smart phone / tablet a email can be written in less then 5 min in front of client. If part prices are not known just give labour charge.

7. How can you an estimate to fix a car without seeing it, without seeing car clutch repair £*** leaking radiator £*** new brakes £*** If unknown fault will bring car to garage diagnose and then phone with estimate. Note i will give price before doing work.

8. Estimates take time and money, been called out for them by people just looking prices! What wrong with customer looking for best price?

9. Don't give free estimates, When i ran garage i would often go out to customer and give free estimates for crash repairs, if you check this is still common practise.

11. Why don't i use the previous good engineer, he has moved away.

12. Speak with respect, i was polite and if asking for a written estimate is disrespectful i glad you not doing the job and will recommend to all i know not to use you.


I said was in the motor industry, which like the building / plumbing industry has bad reputation with the general public, and yes i had to deal with my fair share of difficult customers. I fully understand concerns with just being used to find a price, but that is same for every industry and should be factored into you business model.

I worked hard to over come the public perception of motor trade, aiming for good customer service. After i sold garage i move into the IT support industry, if you think diagnosing a boiler fault is time consuming and has many variables for faults then try computers. Even with the many variable fault possibilities we offered a no fix no fee policy.


I stand by my point that after paying for fault diagnoses i can asked for written estimate / quote.

 

[SimonG]

SGI is a respected member on here and a good engineer.

We don't need to face facts, you may not like it but the engineer you ring is in the driving seat. He's selling a service that you need, he's obviously felt something is not quite right and has rightly decided that on this occasion he is not prepared to offer his services.

You may feel better for having your 12 point moan, but has it fixed your boiler?

 

[carpman]

SGI is a respected member on here and a good engineer.

We don't need to face facts, you may not like it but the engineer you ring is in the driving seat. He's selling a service that you need, he's obviously felt something is not quite right and has rightly decided that on this occasion he is not prepared to offer his services.

You may feel better for having your 12 point moan, but has it fixed your boiler?

It is this attitude "we are in the driving seat so we can hold to ransom" that gives good engineers a bad name.

Yes it is his right to turn down a job, i have done so myself in the past, but to get defensive and claim that asking for a written estimate is disrespectful is not good customer relations.

I have about to phone a company that charges more, but they will come out and diagnose and then give a written estimate.

Now that is good service and i am happy to pay more.

I will chalk this up as another example of why people are wary of tradesman and move on.

Thanks for all you replies

 

[petercj]

Have a look in your local paper - there are a number of engineers who give free estimates in mine.

As you rightly recognise, an estimate is little more than a ball-park figure, and not a quotation to put the boiler back in working order, but some people take an estimate to be the latter.

If someone is going to call, and assess the problem, and put an estimate in writing, and come back again, it's invariably going to add to the cost of the repair.

BG say they do fixed price quotes, but in my experience BG usually charge twice the average rate anyway, so 'knowing where you stand' comes at a price, but I suppose the pain is up front.

Generally, consumers are advised to get more than one estimate for a job, but life is often not as simple as it seems when someone is being wise after the event, i.e. those who tell someone who has been ripped off that they should have got a price before having the work done.

There are pros and cons on both sides, but how they get handled will vary from one tradesman to another, so keep looking and keep asking until you find someone you feel comfortable dealing with.

 

[SimonG]

It is this attitude "we are in the driving seat so we can hold to ransom" that gives good engineers a bad name.

Yes it is his right to turn down a job, i have done so myself in the past, but to get defensive and claim that asking for a written estimate is disrespectful is not good customer relations.

I have about to phone a company that charges more, but they will come out and diagnose and then give a written estimate.

Now that is good service and i am happy to pay more.

I will chalk this up as another example of why people are wary of tradesman and move on.

Thanks for all you replies

Mr Crapman, did I say 'held to ransom' I think not, merely pointing out that an engineer doesn't have to work for you after speaking to you. You are the 1% of customers that make a hard job harder.

I take it that when you do find a tradesperson they only work for you the once?

 

[carpman]

Have a look in your local paper - there are a number of engineers who give free estimates in mine.

As you rightly recognise, an estimate is little more than a ball-park figure, and not a quotation to put the boiler back in working order, but some people take an estimate to be the latter.

If someone is going to call, and assess the problem, and put an estimate in writing, and come back again, it's invariably going to add to the cost of the repair.

BG say they do fixed price quotes, but in my experience BG usually charge twice the average rate anyway, so 'knowing where you stand' comes at a price, but I suppose the pain is up front.

Generally, consumers are advised to get more than one estimate for a job, but life is often not as simple as it seems when someone is being wise after the event, i.e. those who tell someone who has been ripped off that they should have got a price before having the work done.

There are pros and cons on both sides, but how they get handled will vary from one tradesman to another, so keep looking and keep asking until you find someone you feel comfortable dealing with.

A rational reply, but sure other would agree as you state it is good to get to two estimates this would be difficult others have posted they don't giving estimates?

Yes i have company who were polite on the phone answered my questions and assured me that a quote would be giving after initial diagnoses.

For those who think i just being awkward i will give you a run down of my fiancée experience before i met her.

She a teacher and teacher trainer so know how to deal with people.

Age 28 she brought her flat which need central heating installing.

The company who did the installation never completed job leaving pipes exposed and damaged created when running in pipe un-repaired. The fobbed her off and never returned her calls.

When the boiler need repairing a few years later the company she got did mis diagnosed it, did repair it and over charged her. She had to face abusive calls from them, but eventual won her court case.

Her toilet broke and required new cistern, the first plumber told her go to local plumbing shop and get the parts, at the shop felt uncomfortable asking for a part that contained the words 'ball cock' this was not easier by the guys in the shop smirking and treating her like an idiot.

The plumber fitted part, but it kept leaking into the bowl and her good fix this and eventual just stop taking her call. A second plumber was called out he too could not fix it.

When i met her it was the first thing i fixed, the problem was it had not been fitted correctly so the seal was flush and so leaked.

After this she stopped getting work done on flat as she did not want to deal with tradesmen, she tell me all her work colleges have had similar experiences. This is why people are cautious.

 

[carpman]

Mr Crapman, did I say 'held to ransom' I think not, merely pointing out that an engineer doesn't have to work for you after speaking to you. You are the 1% of customers that make a hard job harder.

I take it that when you do find a trades person they only work for you the once?

"you may not like it but the engineer you ring is in the driving seat" implies ransom

Far from it, once i have found trustworthy honest tradesman i do all i can to keep them, which is not hard as don't look for lowest price, pay on time and am clear about what i want.

Read my last post as to why people have poor perception of your trade.

How many industries have TV programs exposing cowboys or telling people how to spot a cowboy, the only one i see related to builders / plumber and building industry in general.

I have found a good company and will now sign off wish all a good day.

 

[fogarty]

It is this attitude "we are in the driving seat so we can hold to ransom" that gives good engineers a bad name.

Yes it is his right to turn down a job, i have done so myself in the past, but to get defensive and claim that asking for a written estimate is disrespectful is not good customer relations.

I have about to phone a company that charges more, but they will come out and diagnose and then give a written estimate.

Now that is good service and i am happy to pay more.

I will chalk this up as another example of why people are wary of tradesman and move on.

Thanks for all you replies

I'm not sure what you're going to do after you've had the problem diagnosed and your not happy with the cost of the estimate. Do you ring another engineer and say " I've had the problem diagnosed ,can you give me an estimate." He'll say "not without seeing it." Then it all starts again. I think the problem with unscrupulous trades is exaggerated for good tv viewing. Ask around friends, family and neighbours for a recommendation and let him get on with the job.

 

[SimonG]

I don't imply, I speak my mind. Just a shame that good television can't cover rogue customers.

Don't tar all tradespeople with the same brush because your 'fiancee' is not capable of overseeing a heating install and contacting the relevant trading standards when things went wrong.

 

[carpman]

I don't imply, I speak my mind. Just a shame that good television can't cover rogue customers.

Don't tar all tradespeople with the same brush because your 'fiancee' is not capable of overseeing a heating install and contacting the relevant trading standards when things went wrong.

Why should she need go to trading standards if all companies are great and there are no cowboys?

your attitude = my point is valid

Enough of this life is to short i am off to get on with my life.

Bye

 

[SafeGasInstall]

You guys need to face the facts that plumber/heating engineers have bad reputation due to the many cowboys out there, to change that you need to differentiate yourself from them and foster good customer relations.

From i can see this forum is trying to do that, but there are still a lot cowboys out there.

I will now respond to some point mad since last post, even though it seems some people have failed to read my post correctly.


1. Bring boiler to me, don't do remote estimates . I was happy to pay engineer to come out and diagnose the fault.

2. Self diagnoses is bad? How come this forum is full of people asking for information for self diagnoses?

3. Remote diagnoses can't be done, again this forum is full of people giving remote diagnoses without seeing boiler

4. Never give fixed quote, never asked for one, asked for a ball park figure

5. Unknown fault can't give a price, this is common issue with this boiler, this engineer told that the issue i is very common with boilers. If it is common and repaired on regular basis you should be able to give an estimate.

6. Written estimates take time, have to go to office type it up etc With smart phone / tablet a email can be written in less then 5 min in front of client. If part prices are not known just give labour charge.

7. How can you an estimate to fix a car without seeing it, without seeing car clutch repair £*** leaking radiator £*** new brakes £*** If unknown fault will bring car to garage diagnose and then phone with estimate. Note i will give price before doing work.

8. Estimates take time and money, been called out for them by people just looking prices! What wrong with customer looking for best price?

9. Don't give free estimates, When i ran garage i would often go out to customer and give free estimates for crash repairs, if you check this is still common practise.

11. Why don't i use the previous good engineer, he has moved away.

12. Speak with respect, i was polite and if asking for a written estimate is disrespectful i glad you not doing the job and will recommend to all i know not to use you.


I said was in the motor industry, which like the building / plumbing industry has bad reputation with the general public, and yes i had to deal with my fair share of difficult customers. I fully understand concerns with just being used to find a price, but that is same for every industry and should be factored into you business model.

I worked hard to over come the public perception of motor trade, aiming for good customer service. After i sold garage i move into the IT support industry, if you think diagnosing a boiler fault is time consuming and has many variables for faults then try computers. Even with the many variable fault possibilities we offered a no fix no fee policy.


I stand by my point that after paying for fault diagnoses i can asked for written estimate / quote.

you did say he moved away , then they did not do good job ! so which is the true ?
You asked for estimate for boiler repair cost before I come over and see boiler !!!
You make things harder by thinking you are protecting your girlfriend because she has had hard time in the past , but you are not you are making things harder !
OP hope it all works out for you and your girlfriend .

However I would not want to work for you or your mates if they are like you !!!
I am sure you are a good man , just been to protective and thinking that you are doing her a favour by been extra protective !
Good luck

 

[petercj]

"A rational reply, but sure other would agree as you state it is good to get to two estimates this would be difficult others have posted they don't giving estimates?"

Tricky issue as both sides are looking for certainty, i.e. the customer wants to know how much they will pay, whereas the engineer wants to know exactly what they are dealing with, parts required, and how long the job will take.

BG have come up with one answer, i.e. the fixed-priced quote - but then BG prices are known to be some of the highest.

But then a lot of people are prepared to pay for the security of knowing what their costs will be, which is what keeps BG Home care on the road.

 

[Ray Stafford]

The whole thing is making a mountain out of a molehill.

The OP wants a service that SafeGasInstall doesn't want to provide. End of story. No deal.

OP can go off and find an installer that does want to provide that service. SafeGasInstall can continue to provide the service that he wants to provide, to those customers who want it. Both parties can have what they want.

Isn't freedom wonderful?

All the guff about "giving the industry a bad name" is a complete red herring. What gives a sector of the plumbing industry a bad name is the same issue that gives a sector of the car maintenance industry a bad name - not doing what you promise to do, and/or poor workmanship and unwillingness to deal with problems afterwards.

Just as an aside, I would rather have a quality tradesman with a good reputation working in my house, and trust my judgement that I have hired someone who will give me a reasonable price.

Better that than the illusory security of a fixed price, with dubious quality. But hey, that's just me. Others are free to choose a different route.

 

[JCplumb]

I think the car mechanic comparison is quite apt, and as the op has been in that industry he should already be familiar with exactly the situation he is trying to avoid.
For example.
My Citroen Picasso about 8 years ago.
Power steering stops working so I phone garage up. They told me that due to the age of the car their best guess is the power steering pump needs replacing and gave me a price for that (£200).
I handed over the car at 9am and at 2pm got a phone call "Hello Mr JC. After replacing your faulty power steering pump and starting the car we have discovered that the steering fluid has leaked onto your alternator and damaged it. We can give you your car back working, but to be honest it won't work for very long, would you like us to change the alternator while we have it up on the ramp?"
Here's the thing: If I had asked for and got a written quote for fixing the car where would I stand?
Short answer: At the bus stop.
Long answer: The engineer (mechanic) didn't know about fault no.2 until after fixing fault no.1. It would be unreasonable for me to ask him to stick to the original quote of £200 and if I had pushed him for a written quote I wouldn't be surprised if he had said "take it to another garage pal"
Note that I had to trust the mechanic about the alternator and go with my gut that he wasn't a cowboy making up an alternator job that didn't exist? If only I could have found this mechanic on the UK's top mechanic website to give me some assurance that he wasn't a cowboy!?!?!?