why don't plumbers fit isolation valves?!

[MP plumb]

i have come across soooo many maintenance jobs where there are NO isolation valves fitted.

some jobs have NONE whatsoever so i have to turn off the main stopcock and drain the whole system down, some use cheap valves that last a year until they get furred up or just dam right stuck!, and others put the valves in places u will never reach again!
so myy question is.... why do u old boys( i say old boys because i usually work on old sytems, and i know valves dont last forever, but even young boys dont care to fit them once they have worked on something) not fit them? is it cost or cant be bothered!!!!?

it makes such more hard work for me

 

[Whn1]

Yea I guess it depends on what youre doing, for instance today I had to relocate a ground floor rad from one wall to another on a pressurised system with no drain off,
plethora the pressure out of the boiler, shut rad down open rad valve into vax job done, didn't open any vents or anything. Easy peasy.

 

[MP plumb]

gas man, im always prepared, incase the original valves dont turn off..... i always have my hose with my pipe and nut on the end at the ready .... just incase!

 

[WaterTight]

dust sheet between valve and carpet. small plastic tray. crack nut, fill tray. push valve back on and hold while empty tray into bucket with another dust sheet under it. after about 1/4 empty, open bleed screw. repeat. if the water is literally black yes it is risky but just use more dustsheets. i'd feel much less safe with thumbs over holes flinging a full rad about.

 

[moony]

Claireplumb - baking tray from Tescos to catch water- 15mm cap end to put on trv.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

well if a trv fails to shut down grab a big pair of knipex,remove the head and push the pin in,its hard work if your on your tod but not impossible disconnect the valve from the rad spin it round and connect you pre adapted hose its worked fine for 20 years for me and i must have come across every balls up possible BTW a wet hoover is fine for spills but the suggestion it can be used to drain a full heating system is ridiculous this would never work

 

[moony]

Then use - 3/4 flexi tap connector on lock shield to drain down rest of system.

 

[dancinplumba]

use lots of towels

 

[MP plumb]

i loved the word 'flinging'!!... you could call me a DANCIN PLUMBA if i started flinging it everwhere! i could have a dance off with the rad.


but on a serious note... WATERTIGHT, im not stong enough to fling it about, i may be able to skip out the door with it, just to look ladylike, but prob not fling it. ill be honest, im not a good thrower, let alone a flinger!!

 

[MP plumb]

gasman..... so u push the pin down... then what? u have to hold it down or it will just cme up again and let the water up?

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i keep 1/2 and 3/4 caps if i don't have the correct size decorators cap for trvs.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

gasman..... so u push the pin down... then what? u have to hold it down or it will just cme up again and let the water up?

chuck a paint tray or similar under the trv,close the LS, disconnect the trv from the rad its at this point you now its goosed remove its head clamp the pin in with a large knips or moles keeping it compressed, spin the valve around 180 degrees quick connect your adapted hose and leave it flow with compression off

 

[MP plumb]

gasman, that sounds messy. were talkin about typical black sludge that stains the carpet as soon as it touches it and u want me to do that?? i still dont understand how i can clamp down the TRV... there has to be a force above it to stop it raising up again?

for the others~: i always keep female threaded caps with me... and i put my own rubber washer inside them so im ready. but ill tell ya, it still scares the ...(swear word) out of me if it fails, and the customer has had their heating going and its boilong hot!!!




owww.......burnt fingers!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

gasman, that sounds messy. were talkin about typical black sludge that stains the carpet as soon as it touches it and u want me to do that?? i still dont understand how i can clamp down the TRV... there has to be a force above it to stop it raising up again?

for the others~: i always keep female threaded caps with me... and i put my own rubber washer inside them so im ready. but ill tell ya, it still scares the ...(swear word) out of me if it fails, and the customer has had their heating going and its boilong hot!!!




owww.......burnt fingers!

dont know how i can make it any clearer Claire with all due respect its easy to do if your quick but daunting i suppose if your worried about the black stuff

 

[MP plumb]

completly random.... but are any of u on 'DRAW SOMETHING' on ipad or iphone?

 

[MP plumb]

gasman... yes , i am a massive worrier, and even more so about the black stuff!... BUT... should u blame me.. or the person who taught me for all those years? he worried all the time, which made me worry. ive seen plumbers do so much RISK that i would be peeing myself about! ahahahahahahhahahaha

 

[moony]

On mental note on iPad?

What's draw something?

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

gasman... yes , i am a massive worrier, and even more so about the black stuff!... BUT... should u blame me.. or the person who taught me for all those years? he worried all the time, which made me worry. ive seen plumbers do so much RISK that i would be peeing myself about! ahahahahahahhahahaha

it is much easier with a extra pair of hands but does work if all else fails try to find a rad without a trv LS normally shut down......sometimes......:teeth_smile:

 

[moony]

The black stuff comes out of carpets - so wouldn't worry too much.

I let rad get half empty thumb over one end and flip it over - in the years I've been plumbing I've had one badish spill - and that cleaned out.

Now the time I had my Hoover on blow Instead of suck on a fire service is a different story

 

[tamz]

You can still get genuine ballofix valves but they come at a price. A bit of a cost difference from a junk 50p iso valve
Water Gate & Ball Valves

I am one of the guilty parties too. Apart from ballcocks and showers i only fit them if it suits me. Occasionally (very) on a basin or sink and never on a bath What difference does it make. None to me. Cheap ones tend to leak when moved anyway so what is the point.
Shut of an iso or turn the full house off is immaterial to me. If it will be off for a while i might fit an iso if i want the kettle filled :lol:

 

[MP plumb]

well tamz, i dont drink tea, or coffee... or any hot drink to that matter, but i would def suggest lever valves. full bore or normal, depending on what they are feeding. i have not had a fail from them yet... maybe others have?

 

[MP plumb]

WHN1... that was a rubbish drawing... but i compremde concidering i cheated this time!

all this trouble coz of un-maintained heating, cold and hot systems. every one is talkin about way of around problems but if customers understood that they need to wiggle their valves occassionally and if plumbers remembered to put valves in places, none of this would be a problem! i dam the ones the dont fit valves in the first place!

 

[MP plumb]

Whn1,... so ur from saaaaath Laaandon?

 

[tamz]

well tamz, i dont drink tea, or coffee... or any hot drink to that matter

Well Claire, you should. It (tea) is good for you :wink: :lol:

Fitting iso's, ballvalves, stopcocks or whatever or whether they are fitted doesn't bother me in the least. There will be a positive shut off somewhere.
If there was anywhere valves really should be fitted for a time saver it is on heating systems. Valve after all motorised valves and on cylinder returns but even that doesn't bother me too much. More of an inconvenience like no iso before a tap for you, drop the pressure or bung it and swap.....job done.
Btw. You can change tap washers no problem and no mess without switching the water off.

Another btw.
If you can't get a trv to shut off with the head and don't want to try what Mark said, just remove the head, press the pin in and tape a 2p in place around the valve to hold it down.

 

[tamz]

WHN1... that was a rubbish drawing... but i compremde concidering i cheated this time!

all this trouble coz of un-maintained heating, cold and hot systems. every one is talkin about way of around problems but if customers understood that they need to wiggle their valves occassionally and if plumbers remembered to put valves in places, none of this would be a problem! i dam the ones the dont fit valves in the first place!

Unmaintained heating, water systems keeps us in a job. I love them :smile:

 

[Best]

Not much point in putting iso valves on everything when all you need is quality valves on the hot & cold supplies. Good to have them on all ballvalves, hot supply downstairs in a house (lever valve), pipes to pumps or showers (lever valves), & pumped pipes to cylinder coils (gate valves ok). Not really needed on every basin & silly on a bath, IMO. Those cheap iso valves will give trouble & will leak if fitted on hot pipes. Full flow lever best job, but the full flow ball fix type valves with the white seals inside them are probably trouble free also.

 

[kay-jay]

moony- how can u drain a rad without opening a valve and all the sludgy black water all over carpets? u can NEVER save it all as it goes everywhere! plus, some old TRV's, dont sut down completly....so u end up with a constand water flow... unless ur handy enough to have the right temp head for the original TRV so u can shut it complely.

i think.... choose the smallest downstairs rad, put a dust sheet down, close valves, undow both sides at same time,lift with thumb over the end and drain in a suitable position )

if you do it this way, open bleed vent after closing valves, catch drips and wait for it to stop, this confirms that both valves are shut and theres not some piece of muck stuck to the seating on a valve keeping the water flowing from the system through the valves while your busy turning a rad upside down