Over charging.

[hunterseye]

Just been asked how much to remove a rad for decorating. I know its standard stuff and not a massive job. Am i over charging at 20 quid?

 

[SimonG]

Nobody should be looking down on anybody. Plumbing isn't a difficult trade, it is lack of confidence and experience that holds people back. I see it with apprentices all the time. As long as you are keen, have a good understanding of plumbing, take pride in your work and treat customers well, you won't go far wrong. Confidence and experience will come in time.

There is no shame in asking questions.

Only picking you up on the 'plumbing isn't a difficult trade', oh yes it is. Looking back, I would rather have been a spark, never see a dirty one round my way. I look forward to any holidays, it's the only time I can truly get my hands clean.

The rest of it I like.

 

[tamz]

Great post tamz, but at 0237 you must have matchsticks propping your lids open

Another thing you find out as you get older. You need less sleep :smile:

 

[Dannypipe]

The older I get, the more I need!!

 

[chris watkins]

The older I get, the more I need!!

Ar' you are not old enough then Danny, you haven't reached the tipping point yet, you can still remember - getting up, half an hour before you went to bed, working a 26 1/2 hour day on site & all this after sinking 15 pints (of strong beer not that weak stuff U drink now) with only an hours sleep after giving the wife one (for an hour), & all before you got up & did it the next day. You are fighting it, saying "well I use to be able to do it why not now". (so does the wife).:sleep1:
It will come soon enough Danny:skull:.

 

[Dannypipe]

I'm 34, and counting. Haven't sunk 15 pints and gone to work in a long, looong time.

Had a lads poker night the other week, and sat up till gone 3am, swilling down whisky by the bucket load.

It seriously took me about 3/4 days to fully recover. I was a wreck!! As for giving the wife one for an hour......Yeah right!! LOL.

 

[chris watkins]

See, told you, getting old !!!! soon be looking forward to an afternoon :sleep1:

 

[Ice Mario]

I think £40 would be fairer especially if you haave to go back!! :rolleyes2:

 

[petercj]

I think £40 would be fairer especially if you haave to go back!! :rolleyes2:

How about £45 on the basis that you'll call when they're ready to decorate the bit of wall behind the radiator, and you'll remove the rad, give them 20 minutes to decorate, and put the radiator back on?

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrr, better still, £5O and you'll remove the rad, fit a thermally efficient reflective backing and replace the rad - so just one visit necessary. Never know, they might ask you to do all the other rads in the house.

Might also be an opportunity to quote for TRVs, wireless room stat, power flushing, etc, etc, all being based on the potential for cutting the customer's gas bills.

 

[peteheat]

How about £45 on the basis that you'll call when they're ready to decorate the bit of wall behind the radiator, and you'll remove the rad, give them 20 minutes to decorate, and put the radiator back on?

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrr, better still, £5O and you'll remove the rad, fit a thermally efficient reflective backing and replace the rad - so just one visit necessary. Never know, they might ask you to do all the other rads in the house.

Might also be an opportunity to quote for TRVs, wireless room stat, power flushing, etc, etc, all being based on the potential for cutting the customer's gas bills.

Treat it as an opportunity to sell, the bonus being your getting paid for doing what should come naturally to you.

 

[hunterseye]

How about £45 on the basis that you'll call when they're ready to decorate the bit of wall behind the radiator, and you'll remove the rad, give them 20 minutes to decorate, and put the radiator back on?

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrr, better still, £5O and you'll remove the rad, fit a thermally efficient reflective backing and replace the rad - so just one visit necessary. Never know, they might ask you to do all the other rads in the house.

Might also be an opportunity to quote for TRVs, wireless room stat, power flushing, etc, etc, all being based on the potential for cutting the customer's gas bills.

Thats a great idea mate.

 

[petercj]

Always aim to sell your services based on what the customer can save by having the work done.

BG for example, parade the fact that you can save £654 by having a new boiler fitted in August, but what they fail to mention is how much it's going to cost you! Basically, it will be: spend a lot to save a little with BG. Probably a third more than Johnny Ball's lot, and with a 12 month warranty rather than the ten years provided by the JB offfer.

Boilers and New Gas Boiler Installations - British Gas

 

[hunterseye]

Seen that advert a few times with jb. thought there may be a catch.

 

[petercj]

Seen that advert a few times with jb. thought there may be a catch.

Whereas with BG you assumed that they would quote a fair price? My guess is that a lot of people would.

This thread starts with a very straightforward question, and yet has led to all sorts of opinions being put forward.

Personally, I think the thread title should have been: "undercharging", and not "overcharging". If someone is running a business with all the associated overheads, I reckon it has to be fair to charge between £40 to £50 to turn out in a van and attend at someone's home, even if the actual job only take 20 minutes.

If you were already working on the site, then £20 to remove and refit a radiator would seem fair to me - but if you are having to travel to the job, and back to base, then £40 to £50 seems about right to me.

But then if someone says: "I'm sat on me backside at home answering questions on plumbing on the Internet for nowt, so I just as well go and do this rad job for less than what it's really worth", can anyone criticise them for that?

Some will say you are "prostituting" your trade skills and letting the side down, but then another way of seeing it is that you are reducing the fixed costs that come with having a business.

If the customer is happy to pay £20 to have the rad taken off, then they should be happy to pay £20 to have it put back, so if the journey is a short one, and if you can refit the radiator when you are in the area again, then maybe the £20 job is worth doing when it turns into a £40 job?

Selling yourself cheap is generally not a good strategy, so maybe making it clear that you were in their area anyway is the way to go. Plus of course, there is always the chance that the radiator job will lead to other jobs that may be far more lucrative. Maybe directly, or indirectly through recommendation.

One things for sure, being too proud to discuss prices with customers during a recession is a recipe for disaster.

BTW, I rang the Johnny Ball people just out of interest, and if you make a one-off payment in full for a straight boiler change the price is £1798 for a WB with a 10 year warranty. A chemical flush is included, power-flushing is on top if needed - which seems very fair to me. The warranty conditions require an annual service, but it can be done by any Gas Reg engineer of the customer's choosing.

The last I heard, BG charge £3000+ for the same boiler with a 1 year warranty.

As the man says: "Do the maths!"

 

[850Rick]

I'm 34, and counting. Haven't sunk 15 pints and gone to work in a long, looong time.

Had a lads poker night the other week, and sat up till gone 3am, swilling down whisky by the bucket load.

It seriously took me about 3/4 days to fully recover. I was a wreck!! As for giving the wife one for an hour......Yeah right!! LOL.

Im 31 im not old and i dont feel it either lol,then again i dont drink or smoke

 

[hunterseye]

Whereas with BG you assumed that they would quote a fair price? My guess is that a lot of people would.

This thread starts with a very straightforward question, and yet has led to all sorts of opinions being put forward.

Personally, I think the thread title should have been: "undercharging", and not "overcharging". If someone is running a business with all the associated overheads, I reckon it has to be fair to charge between £40 to £50 to turn out in a van and attend at someone's home, even if the actual job only take 20 minutes.

If you were already working on the site, then £20 to remove and refit a radiator would seem fair to me - but if you are having to travel to the job, and back to base, then £40 to £50 seems about right to me.

But then if someone says: "I'm sat on me backside at home answering questions on plumbing on the Internet for nowt, so I just as well go and do this rad job for less than what it's really worth", can anyone criticise them for that?

Some will say you are "prostituting" your trade skills and letting the side down, but then another way of seeing it is that you are reducing the fixed costs that come with having a business.

If the customer is happy to pay £20 to have the rad taken off, then they should be happy to pay £20 to have it put back, so if the journey is a short one, and if you can refit the radiator when you are in the area again, then maybe the £20 job is worth doing when it turns into a £40 job?

Selling yourself cheap is generally not a good strategy, so maybe making it clear that you were in their area anyway is the way to go. Plus of course, there is always the chance that the radiator job will lead to other jobs that may be far more lucrative. Maybe directly, or indirectly through recommendation.

One things for sure, being too proud to discuss prices with customers during a recession is a recipe for disaster.

BTW, I rang the Johnny Ball people just out of interest, and if you make a one-off payment in full for a straight boiler change the price is £1798 for a WB with a 10 year warranty. A chemical flush is included, power-flushing is on top if needed - which seems very fair to me. The warranty conditions require an annual service, but it can be done by any Gas Reg engineer of the customer's choosing.

The last I heard, BG charge £3000+ for the same boiler with a 1 year warranty.

As the man says: "Do the maths!"

i really dont want to under sell or prostitute. I dont want to do someone else out of work either by knowingly undercutting. i want to charge the goung rate for the same service any other plumber would offer.

i desperatly want to work with an experianced plumber to stick some years under my belt but i cant even work for free.

perhaps an oppertunity will arise at some point but until it does i have to do the best i can. its not such a bad thing though as each and every job i get. i research to the best of my ability i take photos even and explain my situation. which customers seem to be ok with.

 

[850Rick]

i really dont want to under sell or prostitute. I dont want to do someone else out of work either by knowingly undercutting. i want to charge the goung rate for the same service any other plumber would offer.

i desperatly want to work with an experianced plumber to stick some years under my belt but i cant even work for free.

perhaps an oppertunity will arise at some point but until it does i have to do the best i can. its not such a bad thing though as each and every job i get. i research to the best of my ability i take photos even and explain my situation. which customers seem to be ok with.

Its good that your honest.

 

[hunterseye]

It wouldnt take long to be found out if i was dishonest rick. And to my mind if your going to be dishonest you need to know alot more than i do lol.

 

[850Rick]

It wouldnt take long to be found out if i was dishonest rick. And to my mind if your going to be dishonest you need to know alot more than i do lol.

Well said but experience comes with time mate.Ive got to go through all this yet,i no if i was given a job i could do it.I dont really want to get involved with replacing boilers.

 

[petercj]

i really dont want to under sell or prostitute. I dont want to do someone else out of work either by knowingly undercutting. i want to charge the goung rate for the same service any other plumber would offer.

i desperatly want to work with an experianced plumber to stick some years under my belt but i cant even work for free.

perhaps an oppertunity will arise at some point but until it does i have to do the best i can. its not such a bad thing though as each and every job i get. i research to the best of my ability i take photos even and explain my situation. which customers seem to be ok with.

You have to do what it takes to survive, as others do.

The idea of the 'going rate for the job' is notional, because in a competitive market everything is negotiable.

 

[hunterseye]

Well said but experience comes with time mate.Ive got to go through all this yet,i no if i was given a job i could do it.I dont really want to get involved with replacing boilers.

What stage you at rick.?

 

[hunterseye]

Petercj you have just aqquired a fan lol. i like your posts. common sense all the way.

 

[850Rick]

What stage you at rick.?

I will be in my second year of level 2 in september which will finish at Christmas.Im into minds weather to do level 3.I proberly will do,you do no you dont need Quals to be a plumber anyway but you need the knowledge.I would like the Quals though

 

[hunterseye]

Wouldnt we all mate. the education system stinks. got classrooms full of kids that dont give a monkeys yet have all the oppertunities and then older learners like myself who want to knuckle down and learn a trade and they close off all avenues. its a load of ballcocks

 

[R1CKY]

R1CKY, I would humble suggest that you have neither knowledge or the experience to make this statement "Plumbing isn't a difficult trade" it is the most difficult of all to practice well. I have seen & worked with most of the trades & can say with some confident's that none come close. Plumbing is not just about pushing a few pipes together it covers such a wide range of disciplines & materials.

I may not have been in the trade as long as some on here (6 years since the age of 18) but I have plenty of experience and knowledge of the trade. Perhaps I didn't word that correctly. What I meant was once some experience, knowledge and confidence has been gained, along with a decent understanding of the trade and a good dose of common sense, everything should fall in to place fairly easily.

 

[frankjames]

40 quid because you never know ,it might turn out bad leaky vavles etc......

 

[acecharly]

£20 is to cheap. For me i dont give a price, unless the job is a decent value i.e a boiler change/new bathroom where you can easily absorb a 1hr setback , I always charge a minimum 1hr and take it from there. Like others have already mentioned on a small job like that, your running on such a tight margin anything goes wrong youre out of pocket. Youre running a business not a charity.